Bringing a newborn to university lectures

[Nimnuan]

I'm on a part-time university course (apprenticeship) and expecting a baby in the next few weeks. I'm not intending to take a break as any break would mean a year's delay. All classes this year my baby will be under 26 weeks old and breastfeeding.
I want to bring her to lectures with me because arranging childcare and expressing breastmilk will be much more difficult at such a young age and given the university's atrocious arrangements for expressing. Obviously if she cries or is disruptive I'll have to step out into the hallway.
I've just been told that I'm not allowed to bring my newborn to lectures because it would be a "contravention of rules and regulations". I've asked to be told which rules and regulations but haven't heard back yet.
Can you give me any advice about how to argue my case?

Honestly, it's better after work with time to reflect. Sloppy wording is fine for a mumsnet post but not for anything important.

Why was that deleted? I thought they only removed personal attacks/hate speech etc

I didn't see your comment, but you can message MN to ask for clarification. ☺️

I wish you luck @Nimnuan- in the 1970s DM left me in my carrycot behind the university bookshop till. I wouldn’t recommend this method now! It took her 7 years to do a 3 year course, with two pregnancies/babies and two older children.

The things that spring to mind:
1 My employer (not a university, but a large public body) is not insured for U18s on any of our estate. No offices, depots, labs, no sites at all.
2 As an apprentice, are you not required to have a “Break in learning” if you are away for more than 4 (3?) weeks and join the next cohort anyway? (I guess this is the year’s delay you refer to). Are you literally planning to take next to no time off at all?
3 For the people saying it was fine 20 years ago… you weren’t paying anything like the fees the OP’s cohort are.

If you really want to pursue permission to bring your baby to lectures, then I imagine the sexual discrimination angle is probably the strongest argument. I can’t open the link you posted with the uni regs , but there is likely to be an umbrella regulation about not causing disruption to the business of the university or fellow students. Whilst a newborn might sleep for a few hours at a time, I’m not convinced that many 4 month olds + would be so compliant.

I hope you get the outcome you need, and have a straightforward birth, a complacent baby and a quick recovery!

What point exactly are you trying to make? The OP has said she wants to express, so that once the baby is older she can do so whilst baby is in childcare. But she’s said she won’t express whilst at Uni because it’s inconvenient therefore she has to have her baby with her.

Plan D - bottle feed
Plan E - take a year out

Already explained by OP.
But, your suggestion to shut lactating women out of education is quite original. 👍

Has anybody been a fellow student in lectures and practicals where there are young babies or small children? I have and it’s very distracting, as with the best will in the world they make a noise and need attention. Their parents don’t want to miss out on the lectures so they don’t take the children out when they start fussing.

When I was at uni there were several mature students with children who got fed up with this. They’d made arrangements for childcare and resented the students who assumed they could take their offspring to lectures. A mini protest was arranged and the next time there was a half term holiday from school ( no uni breaks at half term) they all brought their children to lectures. It was chaos and after two days lectures were cancelled for the rest of the week. I don’t know what the official response was but it certainly seemed to stop the practice of bringing babies and young children in.

Don’t be silly. I’m suggesting no such thing. The op can pump but she doesn’t want to. She can’t take the baby in because it isn’t allowed. She doesn’t think the uni will allow online lectures. Given all those facts, what do you suggest? PS - bottle feeding a baby is a perfectly valid option; claiming that preventing a mother from breastfeeding (which is not what’s being suggested here) is akin to shutting them out of education is pathetic.

You seem to have no interest in anything that slightly inconveniences you but don't care about inconveniencing others.

Students' Union and/or whatever groups there are for students with children who'll have dealt with this before.

I don't see why tiny babies can't come to lectures (maybe different if smaller group seminars / classes).

It's worth considering approaching the lecturers directly after speaking to the Students' Union. If they don't mind and the baby doesn't in practice disturb anyone else, maybe these are rules best ignored.

Alternatively, are these lectures online / saved for future viewing? Can you watch the lecture live from a different room? Or catch up from a saved copy on the intranet?

Another alternatively - is there a university nursery? With available places? Could they accommodate your child whilst you're in lectures?

I know. We are allowed to use the word outside of the AIBU topic.

Please explain your username. I feel there is a story in it.

Breastfeed on campus maybe but not have the baby there from 9-7 - that’s a bit different

More importantly they won’t have a safeguarding policy in place for minors so it’s a non starter from the get go

@Nimnuan not sure if this has already been brought up somewhere but if the only option is to express (they decline remote lectures or baby being brought in) then check the rules re storage of breast milk too. My employer not only had to provide a safe space to bf (NOT A TOILET) but also a fridge to store the breast milk - for the days you’re doing 9-7 lectures I think the breast milk will only last out of the fridge for about 6 hrs. Now you might be happy to pump and dump and only express for comfort, I’m just thinking this could actually be an argument you could use - if they can’t provide safe storage of milk and that’s how your baby is fed, then they need to make other reasonable adjustments for bf baby.

Also if they decline Plan B - is it possible for someone to come to Uni with you, have the baby - walk them around the grounds, go to cafe etc and then literally bring them to you for bf ? They may be happier with this arrangement if baby is only going to be coming into lecture theatre 3-4 times/ day for 20-40 mins at a time. (If we’re assuming not cluster feeding) especially in the first 6-8 weeks post partum, rather than the idea of having the baby in a lecture theatre 9-7.

If you do need to leave the room for bf this would probably involve leaving for similar periods of time that you would for expressing (maybe even less if you don’t have to walk as far to the expressing room). Would also be useful if this person could drive so you don’t have to drive 3hrs either side of 10 hr lectures - just in case you’re not feeling up to it / c section. This cuts out the drama of the expressing and means you won’t be separated from your baby for a whole day when they’re tiny. If you could facilitate this then I think that might be a good counter offer.

BF / lactating women can also bottle feed too. Combi feeding with either expressed milk or formula is very common especially for women struggling to establish feeding at the beginning (despite all the nipple confusion scare tactics) and I think the idea that to bf properly you must exclusively breast feed and only out of the breast doesn’t help new mums.

I appreciate OP may not want to give her newborn formula, however saving up a milk stash enough for a full day of lectures whilst also trying to bf on demand to establish milk supply (and parent another child) may be a Herculean task.

Whereas she could give this newborn formula - a safe alternative to breast milk for one day a week (she would need to express whilst at the lectures anyway for comfort but that milk could be safely stored and used for some feeds the following week). This would also save her a 3hr round trip drive with a newborn in the car - which she has admitted will likely end up being a much longer drive as will have to stop, either side of 7 hr lectures.

It would also save the newborn being unnecessarily exposed to all the winter viruses that university campuses have (although if OPs dc1 is in a care setting they may be exposed to bugs anyway)

Not sure Whether or not @Soontobe60 original post of “plan D and e” meant switching to the bottle completely or bottle feeding for uni days only. But I personally think that bottle feeding doesn’t “shut lactating women” out of anything because you can simultaneously bottle feed and breast feed a healthy happy baby.

Did you send the email OP? Is the uni usually quite prompt in responses? Presumably you need to know either way pretty soon! Any reason why you haven’t progressed this before now?

I would do anything and everything to arrange that i do not to need to bring my newborn with me. For MY sake as I’d probably absorb about 25% of the full day’s lecture.

Excellently put. Better than I managed.

Not to mention a reasonable person, employer or university faculty, would not want someone sleep deprived, after major surgery or medical event, driving 3 hours, on top of a 10 hour day, especially with a newborn in tow who may or may not be still making up their birthweight.

That's a risk not only to the people in the car, but others outside of the car too.

Tiredness kills. Signposted across the motorway.

It isn't about employers or universities policing women's minds about what they think they're able to do. It's about relative risk and safety.

I still wholeheartedly think the university should support online or recorded lectures. It's the OPs choice whether she continues her education, but firmly believe the university can say no babies in lectures.

no word from the op.

wondering she had second thoughts about sending the email

Sent. Will have to wait and see.

Op just another consideration - don't know if it applies or not. But is there any consequence to you not passing the course if your employer is paying you to be there and if its funded? Would you have to repay the fees etc?

Just thinking that if it does turn out to be too much would you be in debt if you have to drop out later as opposed to deferring a year?

How come you’ve left it to a couple of weeks before giving birth to address this?

Of course there are consequences to failure but to be honest I don't really see the relevance.
At the end of the day, if the university won't make accommodations then I'll just have to manage with pumping and childcare. It'll be hard, but I can do it.
Last time I wrote one trimester's worth of final assessments in the second week postpartum so it can't be as bad as that!