Bringing a newborn to university lectures

[Nimnuan]

I'm on a part-time university course (apprenticeship) and expecting a baby in the next few weeks. I'm not intending to take a break as any break would mean a year's delay. All classes this year my baby will be under 26 weeks old and breastfeeding.
I want to bring her to lectures with me because arranging childcare and expressing breastmilk will be much more difficult at such a young age and given the university's atrocious arrangements for expressing. Obviously if she cries or is disruptive I'll have to step out into the hallway.
I've just been told that I'm not allowed to bring my newborn to lectures because it would be a "contravention of rules and regulations". I've asked to be told which rules and regulations but haven't heard back yet.
Can you give me any advice about how to argue my case?

The angle here seems to be 'everyone else should do things they don't want to to fit in with the OP, who shouldn't have to compromise on what they want to do in any way'. Why?

The discrimination, human rights approach would be more persuasive if OP was permanently prevented from doing the course. She isn't. She's having to delay it while she has a small baby in tow. It's like saying it's discrimination to say women shouldn't drive immediately after a C section. If they were permanently banned from doing so in the style of the Taliban it'd be different.

The university will not be insured for the baby. You will not be able to successfully argue this unless they can amend their insurance policy and that’s not guaranteed.

OP you can't be serious surely. You'll need to get childcare or delay course (but if you delay you'll still need childcare when you start course again).

Not in the slightest. I don’t work for the OU and my employer has a duty of care towards me.

I have been guided by the police advice. I’m sure, were you in my position, you would do the same.

Yes but institutionally the university won't have known or agreed. Also university was not the massive debt burden it is now...

I completely agree with you that not all those complications could happen and if you look at the post that you're quoting i have actually said so "baby may struggle to latch or may not" etc. I have also listed a way that the university could try and take an individual approach to facilitate her attending in person in these exceptional circumstances so in that regard we are both on the same page. OP has also stated that she is aware that if this is a difficult baby then the whole taking the bay to the lectures may not work at all.

What i don't agree with is your previous comment of
"She should get to choose what she wants and her reasons for it should be all that matter."
We're all bound by rules of society and law. None of us get choose absolutely what we want in every circumstance. I'm sure we've all been in situations where we've had to make a compromise for eg buying a house in the perfect location but having less money every month as a result -these are just natural consequences of being an adult. The OP has decided to have her second child during this apprenticeship course and previously wasn't allowed to attend with the baby. Those are the rules of the university whether you agree with it or not. The ownership is with her to find out what the university allows and doesn't allow and to work out how that best works for her and her family ideally before a few weeks prior to childbirth. She doesn't just get to decide what she wants and expect that that will be exactly how it plays out.

I actually don't think there is anything wrong with her bringing the baby in exceptional circumstances for 1 lecture a week under exceptional circumstances IF other students in the class are happy with it and rules around insurance and health and safety can be applied - i have stated this in my previous post but it is down to the university/ employer what their regulations are.

This is entitled behaviour - you are being ridiculous.

I actually don't think there is anything wrong with her bringing the baby in exceptional circumstances for 1 lecture a week under exceptional circumstances IF other students in the class are happy with it and rules around insurance and health and safety can be applied - i have stated this in my previous post but it is down to the university/ employer what their regulations are.

It appears to be one whole day of lectures a week. Not just one lecture a week.

I offer my view on my experience of lecturing over 20 years. I think what is more disruptive is students typing their notes on laptops with all their social media apps open or using ChatGPT instead of trying to think for themselves. Or having an app to do a live transcript of the lecturer speaking rather than listening and doing notes themselves (fine if a reasonable adjustment, not fine if just a short cut). Cost of living crisis and the high cost of university education meaning that many students have to work significant hours to pay their way and so miss classes is also pretty disruptive. Students not being able to access mental health services or assessments for neurodivergency when they need to due to lack of funds leading to students missing class is also hugely disruptive. A baby crying for a couple of minutes in class? No, no fussed about that. You absolutely don’t have to agree and no doubt you have fair reason for doing so. I take the point about potential disruption but to me it’s not binary- massive disruption or nothing. It’s not opening the floodgates to let a breastfeeding mother feed her child. I think they managed it in parliament.

If I were you, and determined to try bringing baby with you...

Argue for better mother/feeding spaces.

Ask your Mum to come along with you for a start to see how settled your baby was.
Always disappear out of the auditorium at the first noise.
Just bring baby - if there is no disruption why would they question you?
Rewatch the lectures so that you never miss anything.
Keep up with your course work.

I offer my view on my experience of lecturing over 20 years. I think what is more disruptive is students typing their notes on laptops with all their social media apps open or using ChatGPT instead of trying to think for themselves. Or having an app to do a live transcript of the lecturer speaking rather than listening and doing notes themselves (fine if a reasonable adjustment, not fine if just a short cut)

One of the biggest benefits of Lecture Capture is that it has stopped all this. For me, at least.

I disagree.
The university will have a clear policy on supporting students who are pregnant and she will have the option of pausing her studies. Having a baby does mean having to make choices about work, study and childcare.

You'd have a point if the university was kicking her off the course for being pregnant or banning her from access learning but they aren't. She has a choice - pause her studies or use childcare.

Bringing a new born baby to her lectures is not an option for her so she needs to make an alternative plan.

All the best OP.
I've only really skimmed your responses and you seem mature, determined and have responded to some quite harsh/rude posts in a polite, dignified way.

Why would you need to express in the loo?

I don’t know precisely why but I would not have appreciated it if a fellow student brought their child to lectures. It’s a formal environment. I would not be happy having to be a part of someone’s childcare set up. I would think you were selfish. I would feel guilty for thinking this btw!

I don't know what to say - it just wasn't that arduous for me. Nappy changing didn't take 15 minutes, nowhere near it. You don't want to accept that or believe that I had a different experience, I can't change that.

You should be entitled to a breastfeeding risk assessment with occupational health and university should help you provide a safe and clean place to pump. They may be able to allow baby in to directly breastfeed (outside of lectures/classes) if you arrange childcare and someone to bring baby back and forth. Hope all goes well good luck OP :)

Congratulations on your impending baby!

I it is difficult to give you advice to do this when I am absolutely not in favour of you doing it.

So don't do it, express like everyone else who has been in this position has had to.

You say you will take your baby out, but that means more disruption as you pack up your things etc etc. If i were in the lecture hall with you as a student i would be lodging a complaint, if i were the lecturer i would be very very averse to letting you in.

As the mother to a small child your new job is to find solutions to how your life is now, so start working on solutions.

Having a baby does mean having to make choices about work, study and childcare.

For women. And only because we make it hard for them to choose to do anything else.

Women have babies and feed them from their bodies. That's biology. But the system is set up to not make any accommodations for that because other people might be inconvenienced. There's no reason things can't change, except that everyone cries 'it'll be too haaaaaard, I don't want to change' because it is hard to see things could be different when all you've known is the way things are.

I wouldnt be happy my kids spending 9k on tuiton fees to be disturbed / distrated by a newborn.

Sorry.

Take a year out or find someone to have baby when you are at lectures.

Good luck

Men can't have babies. That's a fact.

We do need to ensure that protections are put in place for women but we need to also accept that not every situation is suitable for a new-born baby. The OP has a number of choices and there are policies in place to support and protect her rights but there is nothing wrong with saying that a lecture is not a suitable environment for a baby.
I say that as a mother, as a university academic and as someone who studies and researches women's career development!

If they are doing a degree apprenticeship, they probably won’t be paying a penny.

Somebody will be though, and they may not be happy.

Again, the "she should get to choose what she wants and her reasons for it should be all that matter" was refering to OP being able to make decisions about her own body and recovery when a PP said she was silly to not rest.

And of course we have to abide by laws, but the whole point is that some laws are unfair and need to be changed. It was against the law for women to vote once, it was frowned upon for women to be in paid employment at all, to drive or socialise. All those things at one time would have had this exact 'no no no can't be done' response and thank goodness that's no longer true. We are stuck in a system that can't think outside the box and people blindly champion it because the status quo is familiar and safe.

Have you done something similar to what the op is suggesting out of pure nosiness?

are you currently on maternity leave?

As a woman who would class herself as a feminist I do take issue with the posters presenting this as a feminist issue and with it being posted in the feminist section. This isn't a feminist issue! If a man was asking to bring a baby into a lecture then I would have just as much concern. The fact is that if you choose to raise a baby then you have chosen to create a completely dependent and defenseless human being. If you don't want to embrace the challenges that come with that then you don't deserve the privledge that comes with it and you aren't ready to give a baby what it needs. If you aren't prepared to even sacrifice a few months of your training/career for your child then maybe you shouldn't be having a child whether you're a male or female. It's not antifeminist to expect a parent, male or female, to parent a child properly rather than dragging them into inappropriate adult environments.