Yes, first world feminism but am livid

[GingerIsBest]

I have been dealing with the SENCO at DS' school for years. From the start, I was a little surprised that when I emailed him the first time, he replied calling me by my first name as obviously, the teachers are all Mr/Mrs/Ms etc. But I chalked it up to the fact that I'd emailed him first and of course, had not signed off as "MsIsBest" and I let it go.

DH has a very minor relationship with this man through his work - the man is a customer of DH's company and has seen/spoken to DH there a few times. First names all round.

DH does not usually get directly involved but has been attending meetings. From memory, I'm pretty sure the SENCO called us both by our first names in those meetings and he definitely did in a joint email to us. ie when it's him AND me, it's first names.

Today, DH emailed him. He has replied, "Dear Mr DHSurname".

It's a minor thing but I am incandescent. I can't talk about it in real life because people will tell me that I am over reacting etc etc. But it's these small things that annoy me so much.

Ex-teacher

i used to very carefully echo exactly how the person had signed off.

they signed off “Miss Surname” I addressed it as dear Miss Surname.

they signed off “betty” I addressed it dear betty.

How did your dh sign off?

And that is why I've let this go for so long.

But he signed off, "FirstName".

And they bloody KNOW each other in a completely different, first name only, setting!?

Ok yeah that’s crap.

I think a busy teacher isn't always consistent.

Its easier to use Mr for men, because you don't need to check if it's Ms/Mrs etc, which in itself is sexist but not down to the teacher.

I’m used to using first names for everyone. And occasionally (in a work context) I communicate with teachers and suddenly find I have to switch to surnames.

so it could be a busy teacher thing BUT at the same time, it also reflects a cognitive bias towards more formality for a man.

Funny how he has been consistent in calling me Ginger for 3 years. And suddenly, the one time he's inconsistent is when he's emailing DH only.

I don't blame him. I'm sure it was unconscious. But it infuriates me.

There was an interesting study on how doctors are referred to in contexts like news articles or conferences. Female doctors will often be introduced "Dr Mary Smith is a specialist in paediatric genetic testing with 15 years of experience treating genetic conditions in children in countries all over the world. Mary - tell us about where the key concerns are in your field in 2025"

vs
"Dr Mark Smith is a 10 year veteran of sports medicine, having worked with some of the world's most famous and successful sports teams from rugby to Tiddlywinks. Mr Smith, tell us - whose injuries are worst?"

For years a female doctor friend and I shared articles and (in her case) real life examples with exasperation. She also did a lot of panel moderating and told me once that after I'd shared the original research with her she realised even SHE was doing it and that she would stop.

I don't think I've seen anyone sign off giving themselves a title such as Ms or Mr in the past twenty years. It just seems so ....self-important somehow. Even in formal emails, it's normally first name and surname.

As a teacher I would sign off an email as ‘Mrs surname’
That is how we are addressed by the children and the parents follow suit. Only families that have been in school a long time with multiple children would ever use my first name.

This reminds me of the time I had my photograph taken for work.

The photographer made me sit and stand in a variety of poses. One was sitting on the stairs looking up. I told him about some research on poses of men and women for the cover of a professional HR magazine that found poses consistently (over 10 years) had women seated and men standing etc.

He then said he’d just realised he never asked men to sit on the stairs for their work photos. Not once. Ever. Pissed me off that he did this and that I had just sat there when asked. Misogyny can be a whisper as well as a scream.

All adds up.

you’re probably right it’s sexism - this sort of thing is still tediously widespread.

In this case though I’m just wondering if there’s a chance the man addressed your DH formally precisely because he knew him in a different setting and felt he needed to somewhat ‘distance’ himself in this context?

I think you're overthinking this and being too sensitive.

Whenever I sign an email First name Surname, I get a response, “Dear Mr Surname,”. So I have started putting my female title in brackets after my name. Even then I sometimes get called Mr in response. They are so adamant that my first name is a man’s name, even though it is commonly used by either sex, that they ignore my telling them I am a woman.

I have a friend who is a medical doctor. SHE was looking for a new dentist and I said our family loved our dentist. She said, "Oh? What's HIS name?" I said, rather deliberately, "HER name is Dr. "Goodteeth." She kind of laughed and rolled her eyes at herself.

I’m autistic and have a child with SEN (AuDHD). I’ve actually asked several teachers their preference, including my DS’s head of year, a lovely woman who has been heavily involved with his pastoral care. She understood and appreciated being asked and we agreed it was weird to address each other as Mrs x and Mrs y, especially as the kids use ‘Miss’ exclusively for female teachers - a whole other mess! We agreed first names are acceptable to us and for each of us, I also get her a small Christmas gift to thank her each Christmas for the help she gives with my son.

I should also say my son’s school is great generally, they have a unisex uniform, no skirts, all black trousers, no leggings, school shirt and jumper with tie. There are skorts, leggings, tracksuits etc available for PE, so lots of options, and the head is a female, deputy head is male - both very fair.

To the OP, it’s weird schools, school names and sexism, you’re absolutely right. Like I said the entire ‘Miss’ or ‘Sir’ thing is not equitable and, while I first started addressing DS’s teacher as Ms x, she was signing herself off either Jane Smith (not her name) or Jane. I felt her ‘place’ as son’s teacher needed respect. It was only on asking k felt comfortable calling her Jane. So yes, in short, schools are very sexist on this level which is off really as they’re teaching our children that!

Incandescent about what exactly ?

I agree. I'm not in the UK and it's usually first names for everyone here - thank goodness! I would hate to be addressed as Mrs/Ms surname.

incandescent really?

I doubt I would even notice this.
If you're incandescent about this, you must be a constantly angry person.

You don’t need to check. Just use Ms. That’s what it’s for.

I think we all do stuff like this. I wouldn't be incandescent with rage.

Well, my relationship with the SENDCO has broken down further as a result of an ongoing issue where we've not received the support DS was promised then some new support was promised insead... and then it did not get delivered. Senco thought that because he TOLD me that it would not be delivered after all, that meant it was okay (vs previous times when I was NOT told that the support wasn't being delivered and had to follow up. Repeatedly).

I dared to call him out on it (politely) which he did NOT like. So I am pretty sure he's put me into the pile of "those parents" now and I'm afraid yes, I do continue to get more than a whiff of "pesky woman who doesn't know what she's talking about" from him. I genuinely believe he has DS' best interests at heart and is trying to help, but he is not listening to me or DS.

He did cc the Head of Year (a woman) into his slightly bitchy response to me when I called him out. Which I'm pleased about as there's really no ambiguity in the issue at all so he just looks a bit silly and I didn't have to do the escalation myself. If necessary, I will go and talk to her in due course - I'm just waiting for the next round of assessments and planning for next steps to decide because notwithstanding these issues, DS is definitely continuing to do better all the time.