Creeps in the park filming

[Volpina]

I’m a runner and train in my local park mostly. I have noticed that men sometimes sit on park benches filming as I am running. I usually then alter my route to avoid them. Today I actually stopped Strava (really bloody annoying) and confronted a guy. He had held up his phone as I approached and filmed me. I asked him to show me and indeed he had filmed me. He looked a bit shocked that I’d confronted him. I asked him to delete it, and not to film women running in the park. He left the park pdq.

I am lucky that he was timid about it and I don’t know why I saw red today and said something, I had just had enough. I have never done anything like this before. The Surrey Police Jog On campaign is sending female police officers to run in targeted locations to ‘stop street-based harassment against female runners’. But filming women is more subtle and it’s not illegal. But it's very creepy.

If you run in a public place, have you noticed this happening?

He may well have decided on using it for wanking material so I doubt he was doing nothing wrong.

It's not an invasion of privacy, no-one has a right to privacy in a public place.

However, while he's not doing anything unlawfully, it would make me uncomfortable too and I agree that the OP should speak to the police as he might be known to them.

I don't agree that "no one has a right to privacy in a public place" when it comes to filming. I saw a video online where a woman had been filmed struggling with her toddler on a plane, and it was posted online. I would argue that she and her child had the right not to be filmed and then mocked by millions of people around the world. The right to privacy argument is very different in modern times, when just leaving your house leaves you open to you being filmed without your knowledge.

I read in Denmark they're making it law that you own your own image, and I wonder if these sorts of laws might become more commonplace. If someone films you and uses your image to make a deep fake this is currently perfectly legal. Should you have the right to stop this, or is it fair game because you left your home?

I'm referring to the legal context. If it was repeated and he had already been asked to stop, it could be considered to be harassment. Worth the OP reporting it on that basis, the police might know him and tell him it's unwise, but they would have to be careful not to overstep the mark in the way we've seen them threatening women for expressing GC views.

A plane is probably different as it's not completely public - you're within a privately-owned space and another country 's jurisdiction could well apply.

I can't see a situation in the UK where a law is passed specifically to completely stop people taking photos or filming in public parks but there could be other legislation, for example like the upskirting laws.

There's a difference between incidentally filming someone (not readily enforceable against at all) and actively making someone the focus of your shot. Though even the latter has its merits in certain cases, e.g. exposing criminal behaviour.

I attempted to do a lot of campaigning about this issue around the time of Leveson.

This was back in the day where I had a massive circle of people through work, as well as in my personal life. Really massive, invited to all the things, darling! 😂 seems like another life.

The general consensus was that I was utterly mad, everyone should be able to take photos and film in public and it's their right. And just nobody gave a shit.

I remember the "women eating on trains" thing that the previous poster has mentioned. I think you could actually report them on Twitter and they would be taken down.

but I find when you have a face-to-face conversation with an intelligent person, they believe that the right to film and photograph anyone in public is more important than anything else.

I understand that if that right is removed, then you will have issues with free speech so to speak, citizen reporting etc is really important.

But I do think we've got to find a way to address the related problems.

Interesting to hear what Denmark are doing about personal copyright. This is something that I suggested ages ago. Local MP thought I was mad! But the lawyers in my campaign group also said that there was just an extraordinary lack of interest and no one seemed to care about their own privacy.

It was pretty obvious that this was going to be a problem - remember Google glass? People were angry at the time, but if they do a relaunch now, I think it would probably be successful.

I'm aware that I can't get any guaranteed privacy the second I leave my flat but I really hate living in a society like that.

When I have floated ideas online about privacy, most people just panic because they believe it's their right to see intrusive photographs of famous people.

So here we are 🤷🏻‍♀️ it shouldn't be the case that you have to go jogging wearing a body cam in case somebody films you - and you'd have to prove that they were going to do it for nefarious reasons anyway. It's so sad.

I was once stuck in traffic on Clapham Common, when looking around I spotted a man, in his house on the ground floor with either a very long telephoto lens or a small telescope, looking across the common. My passenger also saw it. It was the sort of equipment we've seen used for astronomy. When we looked along the line of his gaze, it turned out to be at the children's playground. We abandoned our journey west and went in search of the park staff, found them and reported him. I'm not sure what they could have done since he was inside a property, but I still think we were right.

'I'm asking as he may not have had any sinister or creepy intentions, he might be filming people to show his family/friends back home "oh look how women here run in the parks, they look after their health" type of thing.'

Oh fuck off.

That’s fucking insane and totally unacceptable

Ditto

Taking a photo or video of someone in Britain isn't illegal per se (otherwise it would be difficult to take selfies at places of interest without getting others in the shot) unless it is for harassment or voyeurism (e.g. trying to film up a skirt that sort of thing) purposes. Making a point of filming someone frequently could be a stalking offence.

If you feel harassed or afraid then do go to the police about it.

Agree. If someone told me [name of town] has a lot of joggers I would take their word for it, it's not something I would need or want proof for.

I wish there was something legal women and girls could do to protect themselves and their image.

I was in a shopping centre in York and I noticed this man in his 40s holding his phone in a really weird angle - then I realised he was taking photos when I followed the “gaze” of the camera I discovered a young girl (probably 12-14) in a crop top and leggings.

I hung about trying to see his screen and do something about it but he got nervous.

not all men, but almost always a man.

It's you that would fall foul of the law here, it may be considered harassment of defamation.

Filming in a public place is not illegal, trying to incite hate against a person or otherwise cause distress is.

I once had my photo taken by the National Front at the town show, talking to the Anti Nazi League, who were there because the NF did not have their name on their stall, which was taking money from local Sikh children. The police said there was nothing they could do, as it wasn't illegal. I knew the local NF had parents of our school childreen and I could be identified. I wrote to our MP, who pointed out that he was often photographed, which I thought was part of his job, but he raised the point in the House, to no effect, even if it is done to intimidate, it remains legal

He's filming her. She doesnt know why. As you said he might be posting it online (creepy) but you don't know. If she films/photographs him and puts it online then she has lost any high ground and is potentially worse than him.
I don't blame her for finding it creepy, or for confronting him. But putting it online is a bit much and likely to spark a (partially justified) backlash - see the drama of women filming men supposedly filming women in gyms. Noone on line van actually tell who is in the wrong and sometimes these things escalate into massive pile ons - you can't even predict for whom.

It's at best annoying and at worst very creepy when men photo/film women doing random things and post it online etc. I just don't think your way helps...

By the way of it has one of those wierd night vision lens attached then do photograph him and post it online etc (or complain to the police)

Oh grow up! surely they know it's creepy. I had a "newcomer" as you call them filming my then 15 year old DD in the gym on a treadmill. I was upstairs in the weights gym. She messaged me and 5 minutes later he was under no illusion what was and was not acceptable behaviour! I absolutely lost it and have no regrets at all. He was lucky it was me and just shouting rather than DH.

My way is to report it to the police.

I didn't mention putting it online, and I wouldn't ever advise anyone do that. I was actually agreeing with the poster saying it shouldn't be put online, I just didn't agree with their sentiment that he had 'done nothing wrong'.

I said covertly take a picture of him or record him filming you and report him to the police, meaning take it to the police as evidence.

Ah fair enough I misunderstood what you meant!