Nicola Packer trial - absolutely shocking

[Scimitarsandstars]

Can't see a thread about this already. I really feel for this woman - what an utter nightmare for her, and why on earth did the CPS consider it was worth prosecuting her?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/08/anger-ordeal-woman-accused-abortion-nicola-packer

It's the beginning of the UK's attack on abortion rights.

Disgusting. In the public interest, my arse.

Because they thought she was an easy target? Absolutely appalling.

Horrific and unjustifiable treatment. I’m relieve sense prevailed eventually.

Absolutely abhorrent anyone considered pushing this, vile, vile, vile.

I'd love to know what nasty piece of work from the hospital reported her to the police.

Such an awful awful thing to do to a woman.

I am so relieved for her to be found not guilty of this misogynistic and anachronistic law, such an awful experience after what was already an awful experience. It was in no one's interest to pursue this, and this makes it abundantly clear that none of this should be in the criminal domain.

In the 1960s, my mother miscarried at three months - as happens with many women, the foetus was passed in the toilet.

She lay on the living room floor until my dad got home from work. He had to run to a telephone kiosk to phone for a doctor.

The GP examined Mum, looked into the toilet bowl and then flushed the contents. He sympathised with my parents and told them that he'd organise a hospital appointment.

At the local hospital, the first thing that the gynaecologist said to Mum was "What did you do?"

Mum - who was about 40 at the time - had to defend herself: "I wanted that child." She'd had me at the age of 35. She had two subsequent miscarriages and there were no accusations with those: the last one took place in the maternity home, after she'd been taken there for bed rest.

This is tricky because it's the law. In another circumstance, you could not report and the case be as the prosecution describe, you'd be in trouble. It would be on the police to use medical records and other evidence to investigate the liklihood that she was aware of her gestation, and on the CPS to feel it needs to be prosecuted.

I'd be interested to understand exactly how they aim to prove she was aware of the pregnancy's gestation beyond reasonable doubt.

This is utterly appalling. Poor, poor woman.

She was 26 weeks pregnant? At that stage she must have actually delivered, not the sanitised 'whoopsie' story here, but she got what she wanted, so of course that's a win for some. (Awaits shrieks and flaming, because only some opinions are acceptable on mn!)

Oh my God, that’s absolutely awful! Poor woman!
What I can’t work out from the article, is what exactly was she on trial for?
Murder?? Had she taken the pills over the 10 week cut off date?

She was over 26 weeks pregnant

She has been found not guilty.

However, this article gives more detail on the facts of the case. The Guardian's reporting is extremely biased.

BBC News - Woman denies self-medicating to induce miscarriage
www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwy639j97j2o

That BBC report is giving the prosecution case, not an unbiased explanation of the facts. The prosecution case was not sufficient to get a guilty verdict, so what was alleged was obviously not persuasive to the jury.

No media article is unbiased. The article did however answer what I asked. It gave the reasons why the CPS suspect(ed) she was aware of her advanced gestation.

Whatever one thinks of the case, The Guardian reporting here is misleading - 26 weeks pregnant is absolutely pertinent to the case.

The Guardian have two articles on this case, one reporting the court outcome:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/08/uk-woman-who-took-pills-during-lockdown-cleared-of-abortion

and the one linked in the OP which is calling for a change in the law.

Is there any difference between what she did and baby Callum who was killed by his mother after he was born? When does a fetus become a baby and when can you terminate it?

Yes, there's a difference. A baby born alive, however it's born, has the same rights as any other human being, and to deliberately kill them would be a crime. An unborn baby is not yet an independent human being and does not have rights as a born baby would. A termination only applies to an unborn baby. In the UK that can be done up to term if the life of the mother is at risk or if the baby has significant health issues, or it can be done up to 24 weeks for any other reason, as long as two doctors agree. Most terminations are done well before that, 10 weeks or less.

I would have thought that most of that is fairly well known and understood.

Well for a start Nicola Packer did not wrap the baby in bin bags, drive 30 miles and dump it in woodland. That alone suggests she didn't think she'd done anything for which she might be arrested.

She was 26 weeks pregnant not 10 weeks and she probably knew it wasn’t, her life wasn’t at risk so she didn’t meet that criteria. She took the fetus to hospital to be disposed of and lied-said it occurred naturally. I think she should have been prosecuted, but then I don’t think late termination should be available after 26 weeks, when a fetus can survive outside the womb.

Yes, she was 26 weeks pregnant, as reported. I haven’t said she was 10 weeks pregnant. The prosecution failed to convince the jury, any of them, that she knew she was 26 weeks pregnant. So whatever evidence the prosecution put forward did not prove that beyond reasonable doubt.

She claimed to have miscarried naturally and searched on her phone to see if the abortion drugs she’d taken would be detected. I don’t believe she was unaware that she was way over 10wks pregnant.

Neither do I, and I think the midwife did the right, though very difficult, thing.