Girl guide trans policy following Supreme Court ruling

[Iamwhoiamwhoareyou]

Girl guides have a trans inclusive policy with links on their website to “the law” where info pre-dates the Supreme Court ruling allowing women only spaces to exclude trans members (biological boys)

Does anyone have any information in regards to them updating their policy in light of the new ruling?

I'm a Guide leader who sincerely hopes this is updated in line with legislation.
However this is a bank holiday weekend. HQ won't be working so nothing will happen for the next few days....

Girlguiding I suspect will update their policy to say that Girlguiding is an inclusive space for girls, transgirls, and non-binary children.
Also it's not like school, to be a Girlguide the parent fills out an application, nothing else, so there would be no way of a Guiding leader to know if a 7 year old Brownie is a girl or a transgirl.

Or perhaps it will be left to individual groups to decide on the needs of their own group, whether it be "girls only" or "girls, transgirls, and non-binary children".

If GG continues to admit trans identified boys then it is in effect mixed sex and if a boy wanted to join then not letting him join is discrimination against the boy.
If we continue to admit trans identified boys (I'm pretty sure the number is very low) then we would be able to enforce single sex loos and sleeping.
While small girls and boys can look similar it would be highly unlikely for a leader or other parents not to realise that a child was actually male especially by the time the child reaches Guide age

GG linked policy - what the law says (or said….)

For girls only?

Didn’t realise my pics would need a review and not post straight away, it was screenshots of the guides FB page and their girl only mission statements…whilst also being trans inclusive and directing us to the “laws” that permitted this - with the new ruling will girl only spaces update their policies to exclude biological males or surrender and become fully mixed sex, which I see as the only alternative option to avoid discrimination and ensure single sex sleeping arrangements/toilets etc are adhered to. I very much hope the policy is updated and female spaces are protected and accessible to biological females only - there are many more mixed sex clubs than there are single sex and these must remain the safe spaces that girls can be with other girls (only)

I don't think the judgement is going to be enough. Crazy as that sounds, I think some high profile organisations, companies will have to be taken to court, with tangible consequences for them, before others comply with it

The “anyone can be female” extends to the leadership team as well, don’t forget?

Having seen the difference between behaviour and atmosphere in brownies and cubs I sincerely hope they don't become mixed sex. Its currently a calm quiet and inclusive space for girls who are shy and may struggle with other clubs. In comparison cubs is fun, but very loud, constant disruption and a completely different environment to brownies.

Having sent my daughters to Brownies and guides (and been one myself), and strongly supported their girls only policy - I wouldn’t do the same now. I wouldn’t feel it was safe.
i might see if there was Girls Brigade around - I think they are still girl only but their religious stance would exclude a lot.

Good point

www.girlguiding.org.uk/information-for-volunteers/running-your-unit/including-all/lgbt-members/supporting-trans-volunteers/

Well it should be girls including transboys who are in fact, female.
Leaders should never have included males with fetish towards femaleness.

yes looks like it will be decision time for them. Go back to girls (born female) only or change their name to Guiding and become mixed sex

The main concern for me with GG was the adult leaders and the safeguarding issues of allowing an adult male to share sleeping accommodation with young females.

I have written to them before about the incoherence of it. I will follow up again now the Supreme Court have ruled Transwomen are men.

I do think that at minimum the ruling means organisations such as GG will have to be very clear in their policies.
They can no longer write 'girls' or 'female' and then try to claim these terms are gender based as opposed to sex based.

So the bits they have been hiding (such as mixed sex sleeping) will surely at a bare minimum need to be explicit.

Or with any luck they will roll back and become a single sex organisation again.

I think that's all that anyone ever wanted. Transparency and truth.

It was despicable that parents were not fully informed that their young daughters may be sharing sleeping accommodation with adult males.

Give them (and other organisations) a chance! The ruling was only last week. I’m sure there’s a lot of high level discussions going on in a lot of board rooms now, not only having to amend any guidelines, but how to address any trans people admitted to the organisation prior to the ruling.

https://www.gbnews.com/news/girlguiding-trans-supreme-court-gender-ruling

well, looks like they are just going to carry on placing our girls at risk and diluting the only girls only space/club in my area.

sod it, I may as well enroll her brother is they accept boys!

Having just read the interim guidance I don’t see how they can keep this stance up, I’ve got everything crossed for a roll back.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5322496-girl-guides-are-not-safe-parents-beware?page=2&reply=143824530

another thread on thus.

They've posted this tonight.
We remain committed to treating all members in Girlguiding with dignity and respect. In light of the Supreme Court ruling and the recent updated EHRC interim guidance, we’re taking some time to consider what this might mean for us to ensure none of our members face discrimination.

Under "Volunteer roles", I read that women-only roles "are open to all women including trans women, and non-binary members who were recorded female at birth"; so biological sex is real for non-binary people but not for trans people; where's the logic in that ?

Also, volunteers need to be able to "explore issues . . .relating to growing up as a girl in today's world". So someone who grew up as a boy is clearly not qualified.

So they'll become a mixed space?

Edited to add, of course that's what they have been since they introduced this policy.

They may need special rules around toileting and camping/ residentials but surely they will just say that, like cubs/ beavers that they will accept male people. What they can't do, I don't think is allow trans girls and exclude boys who don't identify as trans.

Makes their name a bit of a joke though!

Personally I think it's very simple for Guides.
They're mandated as a girl only space. I haven't checked their description in the Charity Commission registration but I'm guessing that's what it says.
It can either admit males and rewrite it's constitution - at which point it may as well fold. As Scouts do this already and are massively better resourced. Not that Scouts is without it's issues.
Or it swallows an enormous piece of humble pie and goes back to being a single sex organisation at which point it will probably lose the Leaders spewing bile on their Facebook pages.
Once again Guides is between a rock and a hard place. But it will make their messaging clearer.
An apology to the women they have punished and driven out of Guiding would be a nice start.

This would be my preferred course of action. I strongly suspect those posters on Facebook spewing bile are the extent of their support for this and that they would in practice lose a tiny proportion of leaders- and they have been quietly losing volunteers with the legal opinion for years.

i would welcome absolute clarity that supporting women/girls who consider themselves non binary/trans boys/men is still part of our remit. The person I know in real life who is posting aggressively has a born daughter who considers herself a boy, I see no reason to stop supporting those individuals (although I have always considered it a point of interest that those individuals want to remain inside an entirely option female only space).

Apparently the Woodcraft Folk (Co-operative youth movement, sometimes called the "Green Brownies") have always been "co-ed"; I wonder how they manage things ?