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Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

Female commander and pilot of new Nasa/SpaceX mission March 2025

14 replies

ForestAtTheSea · 16/03/2025 18:31

This morning a new crew arrived on the International Space Station; four astronauts to relieve some of the current crew and continue their scientific work.

While I am not a fan of Elon, for accuracy's sake they flew with a SpaceX rocket / capsule; the four astronauts are portrayed on NASA's page as this is a combined NASA / SpaceX project.

The commander is Anne McClain, an aerospace engineer and Air Force pilot; the pilot of this mission is Nichole Ayers, a mathematician and Air Force pilot.
Two astronauts/cosmonauts, one from Japan, one from Russia, complete the crew.
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-shares-its-spacex-crew-10-assignments-for-space-station-mission/

During the weekend, the X accounts of SpaceX (start and flight) then NASA (docking process to the Space Station), then the Space Station (arrival) streamed live videos, which can still be replayed (without log-in or account!); just scroll down to the past days.

https://x.com/SpaceX

https://x.com/NASA

https://x.com/i/broadcasts/1ZkKzYzXMewxv

There are two videos on youtube, too (the first with a bit different perspective than the SpaceX twix stream:

liftoff

and arrival at the ISS

Of course there have been female astronauts previously, and one of the crew that is set to return is a woman, too, but this is the first time in a long while I followed this with some focus and wanted to share their great achievement. The videos were also fascinating.

I'm also impressed by how calm Suni Williams seemed to be, after nine months in space and having to wait for a long time for a return.

The crew which returns is not using the capsule that just arrived; they will return on another capsule which arrived with two astronauts (and two empty seats) in last autumn.
www.theguardian.com/science/2025/mar/16/spacex-capsule-docks-with-iss-to-bring-back-stranded-nasa-astronauts

Probably the departure will be on Wednesday this week, but might change depending on the circumstances.

The rockets which exploded recently were from a different project; they were from the Mars mission and departed in Texas. The rockets to the ISS start from Cape Canaveral in Florida.

OP posts:
Original poster
ForestAtTheSea · 16/03/2025 18:33

...
and just for fun, this is a spoof (I hope!) regarding Elon's efficiency:
https://nitter.poast.org/pic/orig/media%2FGmLkSsPXYAA6x1O.jpg

Of course NASA / the US government pays the private space companies (like Blue Origin by Jeff Bezos, too) handsome sums for this, as well.

OP posts:
RawBloomers · 17/03/2025 03:07

I hadn’t clocked this. Thanks Forest.

Original poster
ForestAtTheSea · 17/03/2025 12:03

RawBloomers · 17/03/2025 03:07

I hadn’t clocked this. Thanks Forest.

I find this is such a complex topic. On the one hand it takes a lot of endurance and training to reach this position, and it is admirable. I don't think there were two females as commander and pilot at the same time yet. It could be the first time.
I went by this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women_astronauts

It is because the commander must either be already experienced (as crew member) or be a test pilot, and this combination is rarer. In Crew 10, these are all pilots but test pilots are trained for experimental aircraft and now spacecraft.
McClain is a test pilot, too, and Ayers a flight instructor.
Essentially, these spacecraft are all experimental 😮

On the other hand, I realized during watching the take-off, there is a very large amount of fuel being burned for transport while others try to install solar panels to buildings.

The failed rockets from the Mars mission caused a lot of pollution and potential danger; the debris rained down on Turks & Caicos Islands and they caused flight disruptions, and I wonder whether SpaceX picks up the tab for this and potential environmental pollution; probably not. And this is just one example, as there are so many experiments needed before you can send people.

And all the space debris from the past decades is still floating about and polluting space. The experiments no doubt discover new information, but it comes at high cost, too.
Originally, the space missions seem to follow a typical "male explorer and adventurer" concept, until women were able to qualify, and for taking the role of commander or pilot within the crew, they mostly needed to be pilots in the forces first.

On an aside, it is interesting that USA and Russia managed to create an apolitical zone in which they cooperate; when NASA didn't have spacecraft after the Columbia disaster, they relied on rideshares from Russia. The ISS has docking options for Russian Soyuz capsules, too, there is currently one and two cosmonauts will depart with it later in Spring.

btw, Sunita Williams and her crewmates are now scheduled to depart sooner, probably tonight or tomorrow.
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-to-provide-live-coverage-of-crew-9-return-splashdown/

OP posts:
bundevac · 17/03/2025 15:08

ForestAtTheSea · 17/03/2025 12:03

I find this is such a complex topic. On the one hand it takes a lot of endurance and training to reach this position, and it is admirable. I don't think there were two females as commander and pilot at the same time yet. It could be the first time.
I went by this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women_astronauts

It is because the commander must either be already experienced (as crew member) or be a test pilot, and this combination is rarer. In Crew 10, these are all pilots but test pilots are trained for experimental aircraft and now spacecraft.
McClain is a test pilot, too, and Ayers a flight instructor.
Essentially, these spacecraft are all experimental 😮

On the other hand, I realized during watching the take-off, there is a very large amount of fuel being burned for transport while others try to install solar panels to buildings.

The failed rockets from the Mars mission caused a lot of pollution and potential danger; the debris rained down on Turks & Caicos Islands and they caused flight disruptions, and I wonder whether SpaceX picks up the tab for this and potential environmental pollution; probably not. And this is just one example, as there are so many experiments needed before you can send people.

And all the space debris from the past decades is still floating about and polluting space. The experiments no doubt discover new information, but it comes at high cost, too.
Originally, the space missions seem to follow a typical "male explorer and adventurer" concept, until women were able to qualify, and for taking the role of commander or pilot within the crew, they mostly needed to be pilots in the forces first.

On an aside, it is interesting that USA and Russia managed to create an apolitical zone in which they cooperate; when NASA didn't have spacecraft after the Columbia disaster, they relied on rideshares from Russia. The ISS has docking options for Russian Soyuz capsules, too, there is currently one and two cosmonauts will depart with it later in Spring.

btw, Sunita Williams and her crewmates are now scheduled to depart sooner, probably tonight or tomorrow.
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-to-provide-live-coverage-of-crew-9-return-splashdown/

Show quote history

"On the other hand, I realized during watching the take-off, there is a very large amount of fuel being burned for transport while others try to install solar panels to buildings"
according to grok one starship launch is equivalent to 585 average cars emission yearly. so if musk succeed in his plan to launch one "mars mission rocket" every three days he will add co2 equal to what 71175 average cars per year add. according to google number of cars in the world is around 1.47 billion. starship in full operation will increase 0,005% co2 emission to total emission of all cars in the world. if i didn't make some mistake that is.

Original poster
ForestAtTheSea · 19/03/2025 19:28

Yesterday, everyone of Crew 9, including Sunita Williams, arrived back safely, good to see that.

I think that Elon’s politics are mad, but I did not want that to detract from the womens’ achievement, both of the ones who departed and the one who returned now, which is why I put this in feminism chat.

The live coverage on the different accounts mentioned above, also of the return, was interesting in that sense, too, as many of the moderators were women, not only communications experts or journalists, but engineers and former astronauts. It was subtly sending a message without explicitly saying anything about women, which are likely not in the majority in that industry, so it was great that they were so visible.

About NASA, I read that the new US government cut two departments within NASA whose responsibility was oversight over scientific development – meaning less control over the topic, and probably that benefits private contractors such as SpaceX or BlueOrigin, because then it’s the old trope: we don’t have the talent in our own agency to do this work and have to rely on them. It will be less easy to check on the relevance of predicted costs for a project, for example.

@bundevac
It is a big contradiction: developing electric cars because – emissions – but then also developing rockets and spacecraft which use incredibly toxic fuels and mostly blast that into the atmosphere.

I hope it won't come to that amount of departures to Mars. According to current knowledge, the travel time and return time together varies between 760 and 1000 days. I don't think people are lining up for this so quickly.
www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/humans-to-mars/#preparing

Ok, I did a wide sweep here – but there are so many topics connected to this.

OP posts:
bundevac · 20/03/2025 09:30

ForestAtTheSea · 19/03/2025 19:28

Yesterday, everyone of Crew 9, including Sunita Williams, arrived back safely, good to see that.

I think that Elon’s politics are mad, but I did not want that to detract from the womens’ achievement, both of the ones who departed and the one who returned now, which is why I put this in feminism chat.

The live coverage on the different accounts mentioned above, also of the return, was interesting in that sense, too, as many of the moderators were women, not only communications experts or journalists, but engineers and former astronauts. It was subtly sending a message without explicitly saying anything about women, which are likely not in the majority in that industry, so it was great that they were so visible.

About NASA, I read that the new US government cut two departments within NASA whose responsibility was oversight over scientific development – meaning less control over the topic, and probably that benefits private contractors such as SpaceX or BlueOrigin, because then it’s the old trope: we don’t have the talent in our own agency to do this work and have to rely on them. It will be less easy to check on the relevance of predicted costs for a project, for example.

@bundevac
It is a big contradiction: developing electric cars because – emissions – but then also developing rockets and spacecraft which use incredibly toxic fuels and mostly blast that into the atmosphere.

I hope it won't come to that amount of departures to Mars. According to current knowledge, the travel time and return time together varies between 760 and 1000 days. I don't think people are lining up for this so quickly.
www.nasa.gov/humans-in-space/humans-to-mars/#preparing

Ok, I did a wide sweep here – but there are so many topics connected to this.

"developing electric cars because – emissions – but then also developing rockets and spacecraft which use incredibly toxic fuels and mostly blast that into the atmosphere"
you mixed something up, neither starship nor falcon 9 use incredibly toxic fuels, nor are their exhaust gases particularly toxic. yes, they add some co2 to the atmosphere, but it's a very small percentage compared to cars alone. not to mention the rest.

as for women in aeronautics, they have been there for a long time. president of spacex has been a woman for a number of years. you must be new to this topic when it surprises you so much.

Original poster
ForestAtTheSea · 20/03/2025 19:39

I said upthread that there were earlier female astronauts and that I was aware of them. It's clear they are in the surrounding industry, too.
I liked it that they are now so visible because that wasn't always the case. Still in the 90s/early 2000, technical topics often were explained in the media by men. This is a big change compared to then.

I explained that it was new to have a woman as both a commander and pilot at the same time; yes, that took long enough, which made it worth a mention, especially as I didn’t see it elsewhere on the forum, but now there is another thread in Chat and one in FWR about NASA etc.

This is the feminism chat, of course we can celebrate cool things that women do, what a weird thing to try to shut that down.

And what point in life would you think is appropriate to never learn about something new? Are you sure you know everything there is to know about the world?

I’ve looked up some rocket propellants and none of them sound like they are used in a MN spa day, and I don’t believe for a second every spill during tests and failed exercises is mopped up. There is probably quite a mix of them in the nature of Cape Canaveral and in the sea.

OP posts:
LastRoIo · 21/03/2025 03:36

I enjoyed reading this. Had completely skipped my radar if you can pardon the pun.

Original poster
ForestAtTheSea · 21/03/2025 15:53

LastRoIo · 21/03/2025 03:36

I enjoyed reading this. Had completely skipped my radar if you can pardon the pun.

😁

OP posts:
Missproportionate · 23/03/2025 12:29

ForestAtTheSea · 17/03/2025 12:03

I find this is such a complex topic. On the one hand it takes a lot of endurance and training to reach this position, and it is admirable. I don't think there were two females as commander and pilot at the same time yet. It could be the first time.
I went by this list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women_astronauts

It is because the commander must either be already experienced (as crew member) or be a test pilot, and this combination is rarer. In Crew 10, these are all pilots but test pilots are trained for experimental aircraft and now spacecraft.
McClain is a test pilot, too, and Ayers a flight instructor.
Essentially, these spacecraft are all experimental 😮

On the other hand, I realized during watching the take-off, there is a very large amount of fuel being burned for transport while others try to install solar panels to buildings.

The failed rockets from the Mars mission caused a lot of pollution and potential danger; the debris rained down on Turks & Caicos Islands and they caused flight disruptions, and I wonder whether SpaceX picks up the tab for this and potential environmental pollution; probably not. And this is just one example, as there are so many experiments needed before you can send people.

And all the space debris from the past decades is still floating about and polluting space. The experiments no doubt discover new information, but it comes at high cost, too.
Originally, the space missions seem to follow a typical "male explorer and adventurer" concept, until women were able to qualify, and for taking the role of commander or pilot within the crew, they mostly needed to be pilots in the forces first.

On an aside, it is interesting that USA and Russia managed to create an apolitical zone in which they cooperate; when NASA didn't have spacecraft after the Columbia disaster, they relied on rideshares from Russia. The ISS has docking options for Russian Soyuz capsules, too, there is currently one and two cosmonauts will depart with it later in Spring.

btw, Sunita Williams and her crewmates are now scheduled to depart sooner, probably tonight or tomorrow.
https://www.nasa.gov/news-release/nasa-to-provide-live-coverage-of-crew-9-return-splashdown/

Show quote history

Just on the environment bit.

Due to career ambitions of one of my DCs I found myself at two different events last week involving people in the space industry talking about why we go to space, what is happening currently etc etc (one being the director general of ESA). Aside from the astounding feat of managing an entire lecture on the future of space without mentioning Musk or Bezos, I was impressed by the massive chunk of space research being about climate monitoring.

We need to be 'up there' to see 'down here' clearly (as evidenced by one of the catalysts for the environmental movement - the 'Earthrise' photo taken by Bill Anders on Apollo 8 in 1968 - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise). Even the conceptual idea of this has a name - the 'Overview Effect' (worth googling). So I wouldn't worry about this bit. I'm so glad that women are finally becoming a more central part of these endeavours.

BnmLK · 23/03/2025 14:01

Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't realised Anne McClain was on the latest expedition. I really like her and she was originally supposed to be part of the first all-female EVA with Christine Koch but the spacesuit was too big.

Original poster
ForestAtTheSea · 23/03/2025 16:17

@Missproportionate

I agree that the research is incredibly important; it's part of what interested me about the topic. Good that others managed to talk about space and research without mentioning these guys, and ESA probably has several options of whom to collaborate with.
Excellent that your DC are interested in this!

I read on the NASA website that the ISS is set to be decomissioned in about 2030. They want to do it when at least one more new laboratory element (like part one of several parts) of a new station is up, but then handled by private companies. So again they will keep on going with the private collaborators.

The oldest parts of the ISS are from the late 80s/early 90s; I can understand they would take them out of circulation, but why not keep renewing the ISS with new parts instead of giving it up.

@BnmLK

This connects with the example in the book by Criado Perez, "Invisible Women"; where lots of things in daily life (and not so daily life) are made for men only as default.

Do you know whether they could test the suit on earth beforehand, or was it one that is permanently located on the ISS? I hope they have measured it now, so that they can figure it out earlier. Probably not much storage space up there to have several different ones, so maybe they need to develop one that can be expanded with extra parts. But the more connections the piece has, the more options for material problems are there. It sounds tricky.

OP posts:
OP posts:
ohdelay · 23/03/2025 16:37

I've enjoyed watching this play out and am surprised this is the only thread on it on mumsnet. As a nerdy sci fi fan, I love the space cooperation aspect between the US and Russia and like the idea of us still exploring space. I also found it fascinating how much they focused on Suni Williams "ageing" because her dyed hair grew out while unexpectedly in space for 9months. The fixation on the mundane.

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