How to respond to...

[TheDefiant]

I saw someone ask a similar question in FWR and realised that I could do the same for something that bothers me and I always feel lost when challenged.

It's about consent and choice.

Ie I think 'sex work' in all its forms is exploitation. Even only fans but my friends say "but she's choosing to do it and who are we to argue with that choice?"

Also the women doing those insane sex challenges to break records - they are choosing to do it

Finally surrogacy - women (many, not all) choose to be surrogates

I try and say no choice exists in a vacuum, those choices affect all women, it's our patriarchal culture etc etc, but it's never enough.

How can I respond better to anyone when they claim it's free will and choice. That these women are giving their consent?

Thank you.

How many celebrities are choosing to be surrogates for Brazilian or Ukrainian students?

Thr answer to that question is quite revealing about how 'free' the choice is in the other direction.

Some women are consenting and some women are coerced. (I call it sex work because I understand sex workers prefer it to the alternatives, I don't believe it's a legitimate form of work).

A lot of women and girls are trafficked or forced into sex work either by 'boyfriends' or circumstances. I do not see sex work as a feminist act or as female empowerment.

I see sex work in all its forms as exploitation. It's not a form of empowerment because of choice. Sex workers cannot choose who they have sex with nor what they do.

Those two women, did not choose the men they had sex with nor were they completely in control of what happened during the acts themselves. Those men were treating them with the utmost disrespect.

The patriarchy has piggy backed the feminist movement and convinced women that performing sex acts for sleazy men is a form of empowerment.

Note that the only jobs where women get paid more than men is sex work and modelling.

lets think about the case so often proposed, the 'girl paying her way through college'
she isn't coerced, she isn't an addict
she may think she's in control, but she is only as safe as the men she accepts as 'customers'- any one of them could beat her, rape her, blackmail her etc- not dangers we commonly face in other workplaces
also, I think it highly likely even if none of the above happens she will suffer mental harm. I remember reading a young woman in the Guardian reader discussions talking about how it eroded her sense of self and also damaged her relationships

outside of a case like this (which I bet is a tiny percentage of women doing 'sex work' women are coerced either though poverty, addiction or threats from a 'boyfriend'

even if it were possible (I don't believe it is) for a woman to do 'sex work' without coming to some kind of harm herself, she is confirming to men that women are objects for their use, so there is then harm to other women

I don't believe its a feminist choice. I don't believe its a safe choice, but I know most women in 'sex work' aren't freely choosing it

and men who use these women are the scum of the earth, I have nothing but contempt for them

Thank you so much. I really appreciate your words and I will use some of them in future.

What about Only Fans? Especially those women who make money and there is no physical contact?

And another example given by my friends was sex phone lines, women who made money by dirty talk all at their own convenience.

I don't agree with either of these things but I can almost see my friend's perspective. They both seem less risky, and it's still their choice/consent.

As @northwestgirl says

for a woman to do 'sex work' [...] she is confirming to men that women are objects for their use, so there is then harm to other women

This applies just as much to 'no contact' types like Only Fans and phone lines.