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Feminism: chat

Conservative/liberal gender fears

16 replies

MsAmerica · 10/01/2025 01:29

Apropos of the re-election of Donald Trump, The New Yorker magazine ran a series of reactions from various authors. I thought I'd share this:

How America Embraced Gender War
Both Trump’s and Harris’s campaigns framed the Presidential election as a contest between men and women. Did the results prove them right?
By Jia Tolentino

The chasm between young men and women in this year’s vote is the chasm between these two stories. It’s men fearing women’s enthrallment to independence at the expense of their own centrality, and women fearing their subjugation to men at the expense of their lives. The difference—and this is always the difference—is about volition. Men who voted for Trump fear what women might actually want; women who voted for Harris fear what will be done to them against their will. In the imaginary world ruled by angry lesbian socialist girlbosses, there is absolutely nothing to stop you from being a barefoot, pregnant homemaker at twenty-four if you’d like to be one. In the increasingly non-hypothetical world ruled by far-right Trumpists, the blissful servitude of women must be insured by removing their control over their bodies, and ideally, actually, by removing them from the public sphere altogether.

In a recent video, the former Trump aide and Project 2025 adviser John McEntee quipped while cheerfully eating chili-cheese fries, “So I guess they misunderstood when we said we wanted mail-only voting. We meant ‘male,’ m-a-l-e.” Dale Partridge, the pastor of an “anti-woke” church and the author of a book called “The Manliness of Christ”—always a funny argument, given that Jesus famously bled to death to give new life, as many girls and women in conservative states will over the next four years—posted, “In a Christian marriage, a wife should vote according to her husband’s direction. He is the head and they are one.”

www.newyorker.com/magazine/dispatches/how-america-embraced-gender-war

OP posts:
username299 · 10/01/2025 01:45

I don't think it's that simple; for a start didn't loads of women vote for Trump? If they were so frightened of losing their rights, surely they wouldn't have voted for him.

He also pushed the 'foreign rapist' trope quite hard, telling women that he would protect them. (Unless of course, he was molesting them himself)

There is definitely a movement towards anti feminist, toxic masculinity mostly driven by social media. There's also a lot of far right rhetoric - they seem to go hand in hand.

Magamom · 10/01/2025 01:51

Did everyone forget he was president already and no rights were taken away; women can still vote, own property, gays can marry and vote and own things as well lol relax everyone! There’s more evidence and victims who claim Biden and Clinton molested and raped them but no one mentions it…

shuggles · 11/01/2025 21:44

@MsAmerica It’s men fearing women’s enthrallment to independence at the expense of their own centrality

The irony of claiming that men fear the loss of their own centrality in a narrative that you created to place yourself at the centre.

The truth is that you are not at the centre, and very few men would have been thinking about women's issues when they voted for either Trump or Biden.

Men do not fear being controlled by women. They fear being controlled by the government.

Though the data shows that the biggest concern for Trump voters, above all else, was the economy. When millions of Americans can no longer afford houses because supply has been artificially constrained for decades, or afford their bills, or afford to feed themselves, is it any wonder that many men would turn against the establishment party?

Bluefields96 · 11/01/2025 21:52

Magamom · 10/01/2025 01:51

Did everyone forget he was president already and no rights were taken away; women can still vote, own property, gays can marry and vote and own things as well lol relax everyone! There’s more evidence and victims who claim Biden and Clinton molested and raped them but no one mentions it…

But he was responsible for changing the composition of the Supreme Court. And it was their decision on Roe v Wade which has removed the rights of may women to access abortion.

Magamom · 12/01/2025 00:05

Bluefields96 · 11/01/2025 21:52

But he was responsible for changing the composition of the Supreme Court. And it was their decision on Roe v Wade which has removed the rights of may women to access abortion.

Yes and liberals like Obama put far left justices that took rights and freedoms away from citizens, much worse than stopping people from murdering babies. Baby murder dates are up to states btw.

R053 · 16/01/2025 20:58

Magamom · 12/01/2025 00:05

Yes and liberals like Obama put far left justices that took rights and freedoms away from citizens, much worse than stopping people from murdering babies. Baby murder dates are up to states btw.

I think I could understand your reasoning for wanting to reduce abortions if you addressed gun deaths, particularly mass shootings and self inflicted deaths in the US with the same passion. But I assume this was one of the things the evil Obama appointed justices would like to have addressed?

Wouldn’t a genuine desire to reduce abortion be accompanied by education about and improved access to contraceptive methods? Somehow I can’t see that happening because saving lives is not the real reason behind the abortion bans, is it? In fact, no one here will be surprised if contraception access is the next of your much vaunted “rights and freedoms” to be removed in some states.

AliasGrace47 · 17/01/2025 01:49

shuggles · 11/01/2025 21:44

@MsAmerica It’s men fearing women’s enthrallment to independence at the expense of their own centrality

The irony of claiming that men fear the loss of their own centrality in a narrative that you created to place yourself at the centre.

The truth is that you are not at the centre, and very few men would have been thinking about women's issues when they voted for either Trump or Biden.

Men do not fear being controlled by women. They fear being controlled by the government.

Though the data shows that the biggest concern for Trump voters, above all else, was the economy. When millions of Americans can no longer afford houses because supply has been artificially constrained for decades, or afford their bills, or afford to feed themselves, is it any wonder that many men would turn against the establishment party?

I understand those reasons. The Democrats have been a v poor show for ages. It is unfortunate that men don't want to think about women's issues. It could equally be countered that wealthy women don't care about poor men & women, or not enough. We need a party that will sort all these issues out.

AliasGrace47 · 17/01/2025 01:51

Women's rights are def opposed by the 'Your body my choice' louts, but I guess you thunk they are a vical minority? They may well be.. Abortion is a lightning rod issue for many men & women, but unlikely to be the only concern that made them vote Trump, I agree.

AliasGrace47 · 17/01/2025 01:52

Magamom · 12/01/2025 00:05

Yes and liberals like Obama put far left justices that took rights and freedoms away from citizens, much worse than stopping people from murdering babies. Baby murder dates are up to states btw.

What rights & freedoms were taken away in Obama's tenure?

AliasGrace47 · 17/01/2025 01:55

BTW I got Trick Mirror for Xmas, Jia Tolentino is a v smart & funny author, but she hates to criticise the Dems too much. I would vote Dem if I were US, but they need a v harsh reform & Tolentino likes to go after the easy low hanging fruit of Trumpian excesses when she's intelligent enough to dive much deeper.

Happyinarcon · 17/01/2025 02:44

im surprised there’s still an audience for this kind of out of touch simplistic journalism. What if you’re left leaning but don’t want transwomen in women’s sports?

knitnerd90 · 17/01/2025 03:34

By the way, the number of abortions hasn't gone down since Dobbs. They've gone up slightly, overall. Women's deaths have gone up, though. So yay life!

MsAmerica · 20/01/2025 00:06

Magamom · 10/01/2025 01:51

Did everyone forget he was president already and no rights were taken away; women can still vote, own property, gays can marry and vote and own things as well lol relax everyone! There’s more evidence and victims who claim Biden and Clinton molested and raped them but no one mentions it…

But perhaps you are unaware that although that hasn't happened YET, there are certainly more Republican voices, and louder Republican voices, hoping to take away all those rights. As the media keeps saying, the guardrails are gone. My jaw dropped on hearing someone actually saying women shouldn't be allowed to vote.

And your comparison to Biden/Clinton is absurd. Trump is the one officially liable for sexual assault, Trump is the one who thinks it's fine to grab women by the crotch, and Trump is the one who had two dozen women go to court to accuse him.

All the assault allegations against Donald Trump, recapped | PBS News

These women have accused Trump of sexual harassment | CNN Politics

OP posts:
FaithFables · 20/01/2025 00:09

Magamom · 12/01/2025 00:05

Yes and liberals like Obama put far left justices that took rights and freedoms away from citizens, much worse than stopping people from murdering babies. Baby murder dates are up to states btw.

You're against abortion yet fine with a rapist president?

CherryBowl · 20/01/2025 21:50

Happyinarcon · 17/01/2025 02:44

im surprised there’s still an audience for this kind of out of touch simplistic journalism. What if you’re left leaning but don’t want transwomen in women’s sports?

In my experience, you keep your trap shut.

The tolerant left are terrifying once you deviate from accepted groupthink.

I’d love to see a lefty journalist stand up for women in sport and not be hounded into the arms of the right.

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