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Feminism: chat

i detransitioned ftmtf - my perspective

64 replies

telerdelune · 08/01/2025 01:39

I have a few problems with the way detransitioners (specifically ftmtf detransitioners - I can't speak on the mtftms) are perceived, by both sides of the proverbial football field. On the one hand, I feel the way some trans rights activists discuss our issues to be incompassionate and rather cold. To be seen only as a screeching harridan doesn't gel well with me. On the other hand, I find some gender critical feminists regard us only as a mutilated monolith, wounded dolls robbed of beauty. I find detransition to be a much wider experience, our hills and valleys uncharted, our life experiences and perspectives unexpanded on. I feel like those who don't want to hear us out try to quiet us, and those who amplify our voices speak over us in service of their own agendas. This is why I'm posting this here - I think I'd rather speak to those who want to listen, rather than pound on the doors of those less likely to care. I have a lot to say though, and my writing style is quite flowery, so please read through the whole thing if you have the time. If you don't, that's fine too. I'll leave a TL:DR at the bottom :)

I came out to my family as a trans man at the age of 16, over Christmas in 2020. The experience didn't leave a good taste in my mouth. Me being trans wounded my relationship with my parents quite severely, specifically between me and my mother. The numerous lockdowns caused my social skills to deteriorate heavily, and I think on some level I lost touch of what was normal - not in terms of my own gender, but rather I found it difficult to exist in the wider world. Between 16 to 18, I transitioned socially but not medically. For the record, I'm about 170cm tall, and as a teenager I was quite overweight with a high pitched voice and a large chest, so it was a challenge for me to pass as male. My mother bought me my first binder, which made me feel more at ease. I think this moment laid the foundations for our relationship to heal and grow, as this showed me that even if she didn't necessarily agree with my decision to transition, she would still support me.

Speaking more on the relationship with my mother, I genuinely adore her. I'd give her all of my organs if I could. I know she's on Mumsnet, and she'll probably recognise me from my username and my personal anecdotes. I hope if she reads this and gets to this part, she'll know how much I value her. To me, we are a clay pot. We were shattered by turbulence and cold wind, pieced back together with liquid gold, to shimmer anew. We are, as the ancient Greeks postulated, one soul seperated into two bodies, stitched together at the hip. Wherever I go, she follows. Wherever she goes, I follow. Obviously we don't follow each other to work, of course. I mean in a more spiritual sense. Like when you're a kid and one of your grandparents passes away, your parents will tell you "she's looking down at you, she's in your heart!". I consider it my greatest boon in life, that I have her in my heart while we're still together in life. The only reason our relationship could ever be like this was because she supported me while I was Will. Despite the turbulence I caused, she still supported me. She stood by me, even if she sometimes thought I was making a mistake, or I would regret it. If she had outright refused to accept me, if she had lorded her right to refer to me with she/her pronouns and called me my "deadname", we would still be apart. I owe my life to her, not just because she gave me life, but because she allowed me to use my life to make my own mistakes, and learn from them.

Mammy, if you're reading this, rwy'n dy garu di!!!!

This is why I am so adamant that trans people be respected for their names and pronouns by those close to them. If they really are trans, that's how they should be referred to. If they're making a mistake, they'll eventually realise it. But if they see things like I do, they'll be eternally thankful that they were given the space to make those choices. Of course, there will always be those people who say "everyone let me make this mistake! no one stood in my way!". To which I say, if you're an adult, why should anyone stand in your way? When you're an adult, you make your own choices, and you face the consequences, good or bad, for those choices.

Regarding medical transition, I called my GP the month I came out to my family, and asked them to send a referral to the Tavistock. Ten months later, the doctor's office called me back and said the GP had written up my referral but had left it in the desk drawer and forgotten to send it. I do truly believe anyone who claims medical transition to be an open door is simply wrong. I waited another three years for my first appointment, and quickly became more and more unstable. The amount of hoops you have to jump through for medical transition is simply incredible. Perceive a million hoops and then perceive a million more. While I do believe hoops are necessary, I believe their placement is more relevant. i.e. more hoops for private care, less hoops for people relying on the NHS.

I got a part time retail job at 18, and with the money I earned, I was able to pay privately for testosterone gel via GenderGP. For the record, these are the expenses for private care:

  • £50 per month for the testosterone itself (i was on gel but this could differ for shots) (i can't forget to mention it was an extra £12 if you wanted a paper prescription to give to your local GP)
  • £30 per month for GenderGP subscription
  • £60 for the initial appointment
  • £35 for every follow up (these were spaced 3 months apart)
  • £35 for a name change document from one of their therapists (i paid this price to get my name changed on my passport, only for the passport agency to tell me it was unviable)

I was on hormones for about a year and a half. The total cost just for the testosterone itself was nearing £400, and it would have been more if I didn't ration it out as I did. I don't want to imagine what the real cost is, with all those other expenses included.

Some changes I noticed were interesting. I slept through my first few days on T, averaging about 15hrs of sleep each night. Thankfully this stopped after two or three days, and my energy came back. My voice dropped two octaves over the course of the next six months or so. I found it invigorating. I work in the city centre, and there's a lot of construction going on nearby. The amount of construction guys coming in who'd call me "love" "sweetie", or god forbid telling me to smile more, I'd look prettier. With my new deep voice, I'd simply ask them if they were eating in or taking away, and they'd immediately apologise. Presenting as female now, I can't imagine anyone apologising for it now. No one told me to smile more when I was perceived male. My attitude to customers has not changed an ounce. It seems to me that men are allowed to be grumpy.

As I'm sure is TMI for many people, I experienced what some call "bottom growth", but is actually more aptly called "front growth". Sadly I can't walk through a door on Tuesday and my ass follows me through on Friday morning. This began at about two months in, and continued until about four months in, at which point it sort of stopped growing. If you look at the nail bed on your pinky finger, that's about how large my clitoris is. It's about as thick as your pinky finger too (of course, depending on how large your pinky fingers are). I have no issue with this. I think it's pretty cool. Plus, I don't think it's big enough to be some weird thing that I would have to announce on a dating profile.

Body hair started sprouting at about 4 months in. I have light ginger hair, but for some reason this body hair grew in pitch black and lightened over time. I have no explanation for this. It's just weird. I have hair in a lot of places. Thighs, forearms, the like. I even had a happy trail and a few beard hairs at a point. Once I detransitioned, I epilated the beard hairs away (of which there were like 10), and they haven't been back since.

Testosterone is supposed to change the way your body stores fat and builds muscle, but I never really noticed that in myself, even though I was taking the right dose. 2 pumps of gel a day, which I applied to the thighs. It smelled like hospital hand sanitizer and it was horribly sticky. I was slightly hungrier than usual for the first few months, but aside from that nothing really changed. My facial structure remained the same, I didn't lose or gain any weight, and I don't lift weights, so I didn't notice any muscle changes. Another thing people often stress is issues with fertility when on testosterone. I never much wanted to be pregnant even before I transitioned, so this is a bit of a nothing burger to me. I've always wanted kids, but I've always wanted to adopt rather than give birth myself. Of course, it's always nice to have the pregnancy option available, but it's not something I value heavily for myself.

I stopped testosterone late last September, because I noticed my hair was beginning to thin. This wasn't out of the blue for me. Apparently if your maternal grandfather is bald, you have a higher chance of being bald too. I was fully aware of this risk when I began my hormone treatment. I didn't intend to detransition fully upon stopping hormones, rather my plan was to remain identifying as a man, as I retained my deep voice and still passed as male. However, being off the hormones gave me some food for thought.

As a child, I was severely bullied and isolated at school, throughout both primary and secondary. Having a Welsh name in an English school full of English children is certainly not for the week. For the record, my name is Teleri. Substitute teachers would mispronounce it - hell, even teachers who'd known me for months would mispronounce it. Childish tittering ensued, always. Eventually, some git finally realised what alliteration was, and invented a new playground game "Teleri Touch". Anything I touched was to be avoided upon pain of death, or thrown across the playground with wild abandon, if it was light enough. I was last to be picked in P.E. I was mocked in the changing room for my weight, which only caused my weight to spiral upwards, causing a vicious circle. Which was ironic, considering I looked like one. Writing it out makes it seem childish, and it seems crazy to me that I was so affected by it. Of course, there was some sexual harrassment as well. There always is. But it had a profound impact on me. I was chronically depressed, trying to deal with it without any medication. I was self harming at 13, and only stopped recently. I've had a binge eating disorder since 8 years old, which morphed into fasting bulimia when I was 17, causing me to lose 70lbs. The nature of fasting bulimia is that it's completely unpredictable. The 70lbs were lost over two years because I "couldn't get back on track". I fasted for a week straight and binged my little heart out, leading to a three year stint in Binge Eating Prison.

This part is not to cause sympathy. That's the last thing I want. There's a non-zero chance my lovely mammy will read this, and she already knows. I have admittedly low self-esteem, and I'm not trying to paint it as if the "trans cult lured me in sob sob". Frankly, I don't think there's such a thing as a spooky wooky trans cult. I'm sharing my experiences with self harm, mental health issues, and eating disorders for a reason. Not all trans people are mentally healthy. Not all non-trans people are mentally healthy either. But neither should be denied medical care for it.

I detransitioned in mid October last year, and I find my life to be a lot less turbulent. Along the years, I slowly stopped seeing being trans as part of my identity. Rather, I saw myself as a man, with no trans qualifier stuck to the front. Coming off the hormones gave me some extra space to think about whether I really was a man, but to be honest, I'd been thinking about it for almost a year beforehand. It's the sort of idea you toss around in your mind like a salad. "Am I really trans?" "What if I'm just a feminine man?" "What if I'm just a masculine girl?" Most of the time, I'd debate with myself on whether I was a man, and come to the conclusion that yes, I was a man, and no, I didn't regret anything. Only one of those statements is false. I do not regret anything about transitioning. The only thing I regret is buying so much damn T gel. I purchased two bottles one night, and then the next morning my mother noticed my hair was thinning. I stopped it immediately. I am a very vain person, and I can't afford to have no hair.

Throughout detransitioning, my voice has gotten higher. It's still quite deep in the mornings, but elevates to a much more feminine pitch as the day passes by. I spent two years as a man with no male hormones, so I learned how to shift the pitch of my voice up and down. I have no issues passing as either male or female, depending on the situation. Some of this stuff is quite a boon. The hormones left me with a tiny bit more upper body strength, which is very helpful when I'm carrying six bin bags up the stairs at work. For reference, our dumpsters are upstairs for some reason.

I tell a lie. I do regret changing all my documents, because now I'm going to have to change them back. I really can't be fucked. But it can't be helped. And it's going to be such a pisstake announcing my detransition at work, and I'm going to get some weird questions, but I don't give a shit.

I hope this was an interesting read. I hope everyone who read it took something away from it. I hope anyone who didn't still liked my writing style. I hope my mother finds this and feels closer to me. I hope the gender critical feminists who refer to detransitioners as "mutilated little girls" take a step back and check themselves. There is nothing mutilated about me. There is nothing mutilated about any of us, and I say this with my full chest. We are all completely normal, all of us. We are all made in our own images. Throughout my life I was a wilted flower. Transition perked up my stem. Through detransition, I am blooming. I am flourishing.

TL:DR: I transitioned. I detransitioned. I regret nothing. Fuck anyone who says I should be ashamed of any of it.

OP posts:
mardirousse · 11/01/2025 00:23

Toseland · 10/01/2025 23:57

I don't agree. Well for children at least - changing your name detaches you from your family and yourself.

Just for children, then. So you don't have the same attitude towards women who choose to change their name when they marry?
At what age does a person's decision to change their name become reasonable?

I reject gender stereotyping and truly believe biological sex determines whether someone is male or female, however I would always do my best to call people whatever name they choose.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 11/01/2025 00:41

mardirousse · 11/01/2025 00:23

Just for children, then. So you don't have the same attitude towards women who choose to change their name when they marry?
At what age does a person's decision to change their name become reasonable?

I reject gender stereotyping and truly believe biological sex determines whether someone is male or female, however I would always do my best to call people whatever name they choose.

At what age does a person's decision to change their name become reasonable?

How about 18? Y'know, when we let them make other big decisions like taking out loans, getting tattoos, and voting...

Iamnotalemming · 11/01/2025 00:41

Genuinely curious: Did anyone from Gender GP check in to see how you were responding to the T gel / ask about side effects or recommend ongoing counselling while they were prescribing you?

I wish you well btw.

Burntt · 11/01/2025 03:09

Op thank you so much for taking the time to write this and answer questions.

Can I ask when you first considered you may be trans? Did it feel like wanting to be a boy or did it feel like not wanting to be a girl? If that makes sense.

Had you heard about trans before you felt you were or was it more that you heard about it and the penny dropped that's what you were?

I'm very interested in your experience. Your narrative starts with you coming out at 16 I'd like to understand the journey and experiences that brought you to that point if you would be happy to share.

I'm not trans and I'm older so trans wasn't a thing. But I spent half my childhood dressed as a boy, being a girl felt wrong. I grew out of it before I ever heard the word trans but I'm always interested in how people come to a decision/realisation they are trans and you have given me the opportunity to ask?

FedupMumof10YearOld · 11/01/2025 04:32

So Mum was right all along. Mums really do know best.

I guess you can chalk it up to experience, you tried it and it wasn't for you and you can now crack on with your life.

Therapy might help and for the bullying too.

AnotherNameChange1234567 · 11/01/2025 04:51

That was a very long post so I may have missed a bit - I am confused regarding the detransitioning? If I have read it right, you still feel that you are a man? So why are you detransitioning back to female?

Why not stay as you are but without the testosterone güven your vanity over your hair? If you feel you are a man I cannot comprehend why you would want to change back your documents, announce it to your colleagues, start wearing bras and eyeliner just because you are no longer taking the hormones? It can’t be the case that without the hormones you feel like a woman, otherwise you wouldn’t have transitioned in the first place.

What am I missing?

IdylicDay · 11/01/2025 06:25

SecretSoul · 08/01/2025 03:41

I think the thing is OP that there’s a world of difference between your life experiences and a trans man who has a mastectomy and/or bottom surgery and then detransitions.

I think our young people have been utterly betrayed by a healthcare system that should have done a better job at protecting them.

Everything you’ve written here makes me think there weren’t enough hoops that you had to jump through. Autistic girls make up a disproportionately large number of the trans community, and a large part of that is the reasons you’ve alluded to above. The world is hard work for autistic females and it’s common to ascribe feelings of disconnect to gender dysphoria when actually it’s more likely to be related to neurodivergence.

Your history of being bullied and mental health difficulties is another marker that was missed.

This is the issue that many of us have with gender-affirming care. It ignores many simpler, more obvious causes and instead only acknowledges what is perceived as gender distress.

Being neurodivergent and having a history of trauma/bullying means that those avenues should have been fully explored first because the chances are that’s where the issue lies - as you’ve now discovered.

If someone wants to have surgery and live their life as a trans identifying individual, that’s their choice. But unfortunately there are many young adults out there who have had surgery and then detransitioned, and feel as if they’ve been left in limbo. That applies to our young men as well as our young women. There was a very candid detransitioner account by someone called Ritchie (Tullip) and his story is horrifying. He had bottom surgery and regrets no longer having a penis. I don’t know how anyone could read his account and not feel horrified by what he’s been through and where he finds himself now.

I think any detransitioner who’s had surgery is facing a very different set of emotions than someone who just took cross-hormones for a while.

I’m glad you never ended up having surgery. And I’m glad you’re in a good place now.

But there’s nothing you’ve said here that won’t make me feel sad for girls who have surgery without the proper safeguards in place. Without the chance to get proper psychological treatment for mental health issues, for trauma, for neurodivergence. They deserve so much more than a doctor who blithely accepts gender distress as the cause and refuses to properly investigate what else may be going on. And yes, I feel sorry for boys too who go down the surgical route - but the stats suggest they tend to get surgery much later. It’s mainly our young girls who are having surgery - and frequently these are autistic girls.

I’m interested in hearing different viewpoints because I’m always open to something that I may have missed. I’m autistic too. But while I appreciate your earnest reasons for writing your post, there’s nothing new in what you’ve said, and nothing that I haven’t heard before. I feel desperately sorry for our young people who don’t get robust medical care and instead are being fed the lie that they can simply become the opposite sex, and everything will magically be ok.

If I was your mum I’d be furious that you’d been led down this route by medical practitioners that should have identified what was really going on.

I couldn't agree more with this. The overwhelming majority of girls that transition have had serious mental health issues and/or sexual abuse. That is the reason girls transition; to escape their tormented body. But their soul is still the same, no matter the outside shell its in.

OP you didn't convince me that there are lots of hoops to go through. On the contrary, you confirmed my view that it is far, far too easy to transition and almost no hoops to go through. The fact that someone with such obvious mental health issues and instability was able to get access to testosterone so easily (and very cheaply) is really chilling. Absolutely chilling.

Your posts are easy to read and very informative. But all they've done, sorry to say, is convince me that its not (or rarely) 'dysphoria', its simply ill mental health and trauma, and its far far too easy to transition.

redwinebluecheese · 11/01/2025 06:47

If there are mental health issues the last thing you should be doing is damaging your body.

SandyThumb · 11/01/2025 08:00

Thank you for sharing your story.

Like others, what it does, for me is reinforce the fact there should be more hoops (or should we call them protections?) for young people where mental health issues, and other trauma, get confused with a belief that a gender transition will be the solution.

Adolescence has always been a period of self-discovery and rejection of all that the older generations stand for. However for previous generations it could be experimental but largely reversible - clothing and hair changed again, multiple piercings healed etc.
Adolescents are hedonistic and idealistic and often need to be protected from themselves, although they often don’t realise it until much later.
My son (also neurodiverse and bullied) at aged 16 wanted to leave school and move to the USA (on his own) to join a sort of commune of YouTubers. Of course we persuaded him it was an unwise decision and protected him from a bout of knee-jerk hedonism. Now 22, he laughs about it and is grateful we didn’t facilitate for him to go.

I’m sorry you haven’t had the support and protection you should have had OP, and that groups like GenderGP were able to give you such powerful drugs with so little prior discussion.

Your mum sounds like a rock, and I’m sure that this was very difficult period for her. She probably took the view that it was better to go along with your demands and keep close to you in the hope that you would grow out of this adolescent questioning phase. It seems she was right.

I do hope you can find some peace in your body now. And I hope not too much damage has been done. However, I suspect in another five years or so you will look back on this period in your life and think ‘what the fuck was that about?’ and why did nobody stop me?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 11/01/2025 08:36

Copenhagener · 08/01/2025 02:39

Gosh that was a long read with not much really said. I’m sorry for your mental health struggles, but it certainly doesn’t make me think of trans as anything different than I already did. It sounds like you spend far too much time inside your own head, and not engaging with the world as it really is.

Just so you know, mental health issues can bar you from adoption. If you might want kids one day; I’d get a fertility check done, so you’ll know if it is possible. Not sure how old you are, but I went from ‘I never want kids’ to suddenly wanting them at 31.

I hope things continue to get better for you.

There's a detransitioned woman called Priya who posts on Twitter as Detransaqua. She's just had a baby. She wasn't able to give birth vaginally due to uterine atrophy and she's very sad about the fact that she can't breastfeed (and is in daily pain due to complications from the mastectomy), but seems very glad to have detransitioned and to be able to have children. It sounds like the OP wasn't as far along in her transition, so hopefully she hasn't done herself lasting damage.

SandyThumb · 11/01/2025 08:51

A couple of other things, OP - regarding your last line, you sound so angry and think you will be judged here. You have nothing to be ashamed about. If there is judgement then it is for the adults and professionals who did not give you appropriate advice and support earlier in your life.

Secondly, you clearly enjoy writing, so have you been keeping a detransition journal? I don’t know what your plans are, but a lot of people use creative writing as a therapeutic way to deal with life transitions and traumas. Perhaps you could join a therapy creative writing group. It may help you later in life to re-read your thoughts.

HelloIsItMeYoureCookingFor · 11/01/2025 09:10

MyNewLife2025 · 08/01/2025 18:04

Being chronically ill and having to buy medication privately myself, the first thing that came to mind was ‘Wow That’s cheap’!!

Same!

HelloIsItMeYoureCookingFor · 11/01/2025 09:11

redwinebluecheese · 11/01/2025 06:47

If there are mental health issues the last thing you should be doing is damaging your body.

Or having children.

WorriedMutha · 11/01/2025 11:54

I just wonder what you think of the Cass findings. It seems to me that with the right support, you would have been the poster girl for having time to think. The turning point for you seems to have been hair loss which some might think to be a fairly shallow reason for rejecting their newly acquired male persona. I know a girl who was seen at the Tavistock c2015 and ultimately she stopped talking the meds because she was being plagued with acne from a previously flawless complexion. She settled back to girlhood and left the Tavistock behind. Do you have a view about Cass.

KitschenCupboards · 11/01/2025 12:44

WorriedMutha · 11/01/2025 11:54

I just wonder what you think of the Cass findings. It seems to me that with the right support, you would have been the poster girl for having time to think. The turning point for you seems to have been hair loss which some might think to be a fairly shallow reason for rejecting their newly acquired male persona. I know a girl who was seen at the Tavistock c2015 and ultimately she stopped talking the meds because she was being plagued with acne from a previously flawless complexion. She settled back to girlhood and left the Tavistock behind. Do you have a view about Cass.

This.

Baldness is an extremely common thing for males, wouldn't it bring a truly trans ftm person alot of 'euphoria?' To experience something so fundamentally male??

Gingerkittykat · 11/01/2025 18:34

Thank you for sharing your story and I'm sorry some posters on the thread have been nasty to you.

I'm also sorry you went through the bullying and mental health issues and hope that your life is happier now.

What advice would you give to a 16 year old who is in the same place you were at that age?

KerryBlues · 11/01/2025 18:42

when I was used to being treated as a man
What does this look like, specifically?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 11/01/2025 18:48

KerryBlues · 11/01/2025 18:42

when I was used to being treated as a man
What does this look like, specifically?

I'm going to guess that it looks like not being sexually-harassed and talked down to by men.

KitschenCupboards · 11/01/2025 18:49

Is OP coming back?

Tmpnamenb · 12/01/2025 10:07

Op I hope you're ok. Some people have been very blunt and maybe forgot there's a 20ish year old young woman here.
If I've done my maths right you're around the same age as my oldest child who lives away from home but still needs a lot of hand holding and guidance.

KitschenCupboards · 12/01/2025 10:34

Tmpnamenb · 12/01/2025 10:07

Op I hope you're ok. Some people have been very blunt and maybe forgot there's a 20ish year old young woman here.
If I've done my maths right you're around the same age as my oldest child who lives away from home but still needs a lot of hand holding and guidance.

At 20 I was married with a baby, renting and working.

ditalini · 12/01/2025 11:22

There's a famous line from Anna Karenina "All happy families are alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way”

The more I read transition and detransition stories, the more I think it's the opposite.

Anyway, I'm happy for you that you're feeling more comfortable in your own skin.

memememe · 12/01/2025 13:55

Are you neuro diverse? I'm noticing a lot of female asd adhd kids are transitioning or wanting to transition as they don't feel right in Their bodies, but it's actually the way their ND presents.

Soontobe60 · 12/01/2025 14:15

mardirousse · 11/01/2025 00:23

Just for children, then. So you don't have the same attitude towards women who choose to change their name when they marry?
At what age does a person's decision to change their name become reasonable?

I reject gender stereotyping and truly believe biological sex determines whether someone is male or female, however I would always do my best to call people whatever name they choose.

The difference between someone changing their surname upon marriage and someone changing their forename upon ‘transitioning’ is that the former isn’t ruling to erase their whole past life, whereby the latter is. I don't refer to my birth name as my ‘deadname’ and quite often will still see myself as a ‘Smith’ (not my real birth name) especially when talking about my childhood and my parents / siblings. The other obvious difference is that married women dont generally claim to now be married men.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 12/01/2025 15:09

memememe · 12/01/2025 13:55

Are you neuro diverse? I'm noticing a lot of female asd adhd kids are transitioning or wanting to transition as they don't feel right in Their bodies, but it's actually the way their ND presents.

OP said in a follow-up post that she's autistic.