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Feminism: chat

Ranting about sex as a construct of power

60 replies

Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 05:49

Because gender is a social construct, and sex is made from gender, then sex is a construct too. Sex is a construct of power, and like gender it is not binary. Sex characteristics, from body temperature and body fat to the way one walks and their muscle distribution, from skin and self care investment to internal organ properties and lifestyle choices, are created by power. Sure, people have certain genitals, and they have diverse differences... but I really don't care what genitals somebody has, and most other women agree. There are also many other physical parameters which precisely don't fit into the convenience of this present power. I'm here to filter away the masculine, and let the rest thrive. As to sex, well, I need to deal with sexism to better let my promises be. And we can’t use sex discrimination to end sexism. Sexism is discrimination on the basis of sex, and it is distinct from power. The issues of sexism are a result of power imbalances, and there is nothing inherent about sex that pertains to power. For example, while normally females have less power, when males act in female ways, they lose the power of sexism and females have power over them - this sometimes manifests in the form of trans hate. So sexism does not give anybody power on the basis of sex - it gives people who fit a certain mold power, and it gives it preferentially to males - females can also fit the mold (although it’s more work for them) through things like culturally fetishized sex appeal. I happen to be very lucky to live in a community that doesn’t have too much care for what sex somebody is. I previously was not as fortunate. And I don’t think sexism is the fault of any particular sex - it’s just that stereotypical men have more power, and with power tends to come abuse, so it’s their fault.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 05/10/2024 06:02

Sexism can be ignoring sex and its realities as well as noticing it too much.

Discrimination can be a neutral term. You can discriminate between two different things without judging or disadvantaging them. I can tell that I'm listening to a bird, not a cat, right now because I can discriminate between them.

I can also discriminate (tell the difference) between male and female people because a human's sex is part of their whole being. Genitals are one of the most obvious external signs of the system of physical sex but sex is in every body structure and every cell. We are whole people, not shapeless voids with genitals bolted on.

Women's construction around gestation means we aren't slightly smaller or defective men, we are constructed differently in every way. I have peritrochanteric pain right now because the tendons around my groin go around my hips and pelvis in a configuration that is right for women. I need to manage that in a way that is right for women.

Obsession with who has the power in any situation is a very masculine (not male) way of looking at things. Porn is focused on power relationships. Letting go of that while still acknowledging physical realities might be a way forward.

Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 06:46

Yes, discrimination can be a neutral term. But sexism is in many things. There is a lack of sufficient data on this, so I'm not interested in arguing whether sex discrimination has a good or bad outcome in any situation, I just want to reduce it and maybe opt for a more female way of doing things. I have arch pain because my lower body muscles are being configured in a way that is right for me squatting on my toes while I play volleyball (a rather "female", not feminine sport). I am distinguishing between gender (feminine, masculine), which is social, and "sex" (male, female) which, in this case, is a set of physical characteristics which are more typical of people of a certain sex, and which can vary regardless of sex - and since sexism benefits men, or males, or however you wanna say it, I tend to have the idea that men, who tend to have power, help reinforce sex, hence why I say sex is a construct of power. It's not that being about power is a male "masculine" way of cognizing (you ignored the thing about trans hate), but more commonly males have power. And there are other forms of power, such as racial power. Anyways, I tend to make more of my decisions based on social factors. But when I do worldly thinking, I focus on how energetic I am at a moment rather than being consistently energetic (being powerful). Others' power is simply an inefficiency for me. I am momentarily more focused on these precision thoughts, as I transition to young adulthood, but I'd like to defeat some sexism so I can go back to repair social issues I didn't solve before. Wow, this is such a rant. Thanks for participating!

OP posts:
PrincesseConnasse · 05/10/2024 06:49

Interesting that you choose to use the word "ranting" in your title a derogatory term so often used against feminists to undermine their discourse. Are you reclaiming it?

Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 07:43

Hmm... no I'm not reclaiming that term. But I wasn't yet aware it was derogatory. And I didn't want to sound like a big shot academic. I do like when people talk it up, quantity over perfection. And I have low self esteem here because I'm new to this site and adventurous.

OP posts:
parietal · 05/10/2024 07:47

"Because gender is a social construct, and sex is made from gender, then sex is a construct too."

The logic of this simply doesn't make sense. Sex is a biological fact. It is binary in all mammals and most other species with a few oddballs (slugs, clownfish). Gender is then the social construct that is made from the human sex binary. Gender attempts to put people in boxes of certain jobs or personalities or roles. And that gender stereotyping is limiting and helpful. But breaking down gender does not require us to pretend that biological sex doesn't exist.

parietal · 05/10/2024 07:48

Edit to say gender stereotypes are UNHELPFUL in the post above

PrincesseConnasse · 05/10/2024 07:52

Don't worry, you don't sound like an academic.

Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 08:03

People learn about society before they learn about sex. So gender is gonna shape sex-typed traits much more than the other way around. Sex-typed traits are not inherent, they aren't based on genetic information like sex. I wish I knew better wording for those distinctions, as it's not the same as gender. Like... for example, people can wax their legs, and moisturize them, and then have smooth soft skin, regardless of their sex. People can wear makeup, and make their upper cheeks and chin and middle forehead brighter and the edges of their face darker, regardless of sex. People can practice their handwriting, and learn to crochet, regardless of their sex. But most males don't, because they aren't first socialized to value these things. Gender creates sex, and not the other way around.

I know, PrincesseConnasse, I'm not trying to sound like an academic. Speaking from experience here.

OP posts:
Sussurations · 05/10/2024 08:05

PrincesseConnasse · 05/10/2024 07:52

Don't worry, you don't sound like an academic.

OMG 😂

Beamur · 05/10/2024 08:11

.but most males don't, because they aren't first socialized to value these things. Gender creates sex, and not the other way around
This is inherently contradictory.

CatusFlatus · 05/10/2024 08:13

Lots of nonsense in the OP.

Meceme · 05/10/2024 08:15

Well no, sex is recognised first because its a biological reality. The actions you describe are stereotypes of behaviour attributed to each sex. Yes, either sex can adopt those stereotypes (make up, leg waxing) but it doesn't make them that sex. Only biology does that.

Toothpegs · 05/10/2024 08:16

Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 08:03

People learn about society before they learn about sex. So gender is gonna shape sex-typed traits much more than the other way around. Sex-typed traits are not inherent, they aren't based on genetic information like sex. I wish I knew better wording for those distinctions, as it's not the same as gender. Like... for example, people can wax their legs, and moisturize them, and then have smooth soft skin, regardless of their sex. People can wear makeup, and make their upper cheeks and chin and middle forehead brighter and the edges of their face darker, regardless of sex. People can practice their handwriting, and learn to crochet, regardless of their sex. But most males don't, because they aren't first socialized to value these things. Gender creates sex, and not the other way around.

I know, PrincesseConnasse, I'm not trying to sound like an academic. Speaking from experience here.

You sound very confused.

Your logic is muddled. Your argument is nonsensical.

Meceme · 05/10/2024 08:22

Sex is not a construct of power. The power difference does not create the sex.
The biological differences of our sexed bodies mean that one sex is bigger, stronger and more physically powerful than the other.
Biological sex creates the power imbalance.

Meceme · 05/10/2024 08:28

Also sex is not made from gender. Sex is a biological fact. Gender is a set of socially accepted stereotypes placed on a person because of their biological sex.
Gender stereotypes vary in societies and are mostly regressive nonsense. Be gender non - conforming ... it won't change your sex but you might be happier.

Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 08:50

Well maybe you're confused about what sex-typed traits and sex is. This isn't about ideology. Sex isn't very important for humans, but it is biological. Factors that we associate with secondary sex characteristics, like certain hormones, change at least partly according to one's lifestyle - stress and cortisol, parenting and estradiol, posture and testosserone. And then... sex-typed traits are what we can change, and they have more implications for wellbeing. The things mentioned in my previous posts are sex-typed traits. The skill of crocheting is not inherent to a particular sex, for example, yet most who crochet happen to have female genetics. But it is not a social skill either, as it does not involve interacting with other people (well, I like to talk while doing it), rather it is a skill for physically interacting with materials. And the same is true about the way I walk with my tippy toes.

OP posts:
Notmydaughteryoubitch · 05/10/2024 08:59

@Alexa97 are you still drunk?

People crocheting tend to be women because over centuries women and men have been socialised into believing that those kind of craft activities are inherently female. It is not a sex type trait but it has become gendered in its association.

And socialisation does not have anything necessarily to do with social skills, it's about the formation of identity being shaped by social mores and norms and stereotypes.

Walking on tippy toes - I mean I'm really lost.

Meceme · 05/10/2024 09:02

Walking on tippy toes is also not a sex typed trait, most toddlers do it at some point.
Not sure what you're trying to say, can you explain in one sentence?

Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 09:06

Social skills I define as skills that are related to society. Society is people interacting with other people.

By walking on my tippy toes, I refer to putting more of my weight on my toes, especially big toes, than the heels - this is a statistically female thing, but it's not all about the toes - I said it as "walking on my tippy toes" because that sounded like it could lighten the mood.

OP posts:
Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 09:08

Gender is defined by society, and does not extend to physical activities, such as crocheting. You could refer to crocheting as a form of gender expression, or as a sex-typed trait, or perhaps just leave it out and consider it creativity.

OP posts:
parietal · 05/10/2024 09:33

Gender certainly does extend to physical activities like crochet and boxing. Gender is why people think that crochet is a feminine activity and boxing is a male activity. That is societies gender stereotypes that get manifest in the form of physical activities- boxing classes for boys and crochet for girls.

I think you are starting with a completely different terminology to many people here. If you want to find some common ground with people, you need to understand how people use their terminology

Devilsmommy · 05/10/2024 09:42

CatusFlatus · 05/10/2024 08:13

Lots of nonsense in the OP.

And all the updates. Somebody has some serious gender confusion going on 😂

Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 10:05

Okay, yes, I accept that I need better terminology. But ya'll have misunderstandings anyways.

OP posts:
Alexa97 · 05/10/2024 10:09

Devilsmommy · 05/10/2024 09:42

And all the updates. Somebody has some serious gender confusion going on 😂

I didn't confuse a whole adolescence of being socialized a particular way. But this isn't about promises, so I can't be confused.

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Meceme · 05/10/2024 10:24

Sex is the biological reality of your body. Gender is the constraints and stereotypes imposed by society because of their sex.
Sex is real. Gender is thoughts expressed as expectations this can be ignored.
For example:
Boxing.
Both males and females can box competitively although females might be dissuaded because "gender stereotype"
Males and Females should not box each other competitively because physical differences make this unsafe and unfair. Sex cannot be ignored.

Crocheting:
Males and females can compete in crochet craft fairs as sex has no physical effects on the level of skill and creativity shown.