Are women's nipples indecent?

[Superlambaanana]

A young woman exposed her breast during a 12th of July parade in Belfast.

It seems she was doing it to be provocative. She wasn't part of the parade, was dressed in a fairly striking manner and it was filmed. But, ya know, "Young person does something to attract attention" has hardly ever been worthy of anything other than a yawn now or ever in the annals of history.

But...

The Police Service of Northern Ireland has launched an investigation and is searching for the young woman.

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psni-searching-for-twelfth-flasher-as-investigation-launched/a2089568267.html

This strikes me as creepy at best and deeply concerning at worst.

The law prohibits the bearing of genitals (apparently female breasts are genitals) with the intention of alarming or distressing others. But really, do we need to go searching for a young woman because she bared a breast and nipple for a few seconds in a sort of provocative way?

How many men swagger around topless around pubs and football matches - are any of them ever pursued by police because their nipples were on show? Or are men's nipples incapable of causing alarm or distress while women's still hold that kind of power?

It's like living in some dystopian nightmare. Breasts are simply part of a woman's anatomy. The alarm or distress is only caused as a result of the viewer's personal issues and likely weird associations with women's bodies.

Surely police forces are thinking even more carefully about which cases to pursue against women these days? Why on earth do the PSNI feel it is necessary to spend time and money on this when women are being murdered and harassed by men on a regular basis?

Agree. It's flat out discriminatory.
Whatever the woman's motives were, breasts aren't genitals and punishing her for this is some bullshit.
Women's nipples feed babies. They are not any more indecent than male nipples. I don't think baring either male or female nipples is indecent or warrants police action.

Social media will blur female nipples in a 'before top surgery' photo but allow those very same nipples to be freely shown on the same site afterwards. The 'look at me on the beach with my re-attached nipples and scars that I can now display with male freedom' photo is now a cliche with this cohort.

No they're not indecent of course and I'd be interested to see this come to court if it gets to that. Police actively pursuing her is crazy yes.

I still probably wouldn't get mine out in Northern Ireland though, to be honest.

do I want women to start walking around topless? Not really.

are women’s nipples indecent? No

just because I have personal hang ups about coverage does not mean that women need to cover their bodies in a way that is different then men.

the laws and rules for men and women need to be the same. If a man is legally or socially allowed to remove his shirt in a particular situation, then it needs to be ok for a woman to do the same.

In the context of the 12th July parade, I think it is. And would think the same of a man without a shirt on.

Isn't it the case that this has been deemed indecent because it was specifically at a religious parade and so the toplessness was perceived as being deliberate to cause offence.

My understanding of the laws around nakedness in the UK is that it is illegal where the act is for the purpose of causing offence or upset.

She didn't just flash a breast. She joined in alongside one of the marching bands with her breast exposed. She was removed from the place a few times but kept going back and joining in. Apparently she does a lot of this stuff on TikTok.

She sounds like a pain in the arse.

What's "indecent"? It's all an opinion of each individual person, or you could say it's a social consensus that's made up of everyone's opinion collectively. Or maybe "opinion" is the wrong word and it's really "instinctive response". We accept what we're used to seeing and are likely to be offended by what we haven't seen before. And even then, there's context involved too--body exposure that we'd ignore on a beach might really get our attention on the High Street.

Having looked at the video of her I agree she was behaving ridiculously.
Goodness knows I'm totally against these 12th July parades but the last thing they need is some person using the parade for personal exhibitionism.
I do think some feminists sometimes chose some strange battles and defending this woman's behaviour is one of them.

Neither male or female nips should be out on the street.

They belong on the beach or back garden. I don’t want to see any sweaty nipples in full view.

Pain in the arse isn't illegal though is it?

Depends what that pain in the arse is doing like causing a public nuisance and not for the first time

Well I think given how the whole atmosphere around these marches is a very sensitive area anyway, someone behaving in a totally irresponsible and stupid way could actually cause a problem.
Why are some posters so keen to defend her behaviour? Do you really think she enhanced the cause of women being taken seriously in society by behaving in this way?

It's not about defending her, it's about defending the right to be topless. We all know a man with a nipple out in that situation would not have been treated the same way. It wouldn't be considered acceptable by others, but he wouldn't have to worry about being arrested.
Her behaviour is gross. It just shouldn't be a criminal matter.

So women can breast feed in public and not get arrested. I know some people stupidly are offended by the sight of a woman breastfeeding in public but right minded people aren't. So it is not illegal for a woman to bare her breasts in public.

So I would suggest it is the context and the manner in which this woman bared her breast that is the problem. Not women's breasts in general.

I'm not defending her behaviour, but I'm also not condemning it. It should illicit a 'yawn and move on' response from everyone with any sense. (And while I abhor whataboutery, it is hard not to invoke the very many grossly offensive actions associated with the 12th July in NI, like burning effigies of living people, at least to demonstrate that marchers are hardly delicate wallflowers.)

Had she walked along swearing, interfering with the march or tried to physically attack people it would be right for the police to at least caution her.

But what she did was bare a breast and shake it about a bit.

The law doesn't treat men and women differently in this. It's actually legal to bare your genitals. But if either sex bares their genitalia in a manner designed to cause 'alarm or distress' that is illegal.

However, my point is that, had a man walked along with no top on and provocatively thumbed his nipples, I doubt very much that anyone would have been bothered, much less would police get involved.

It's the fact that she's a young woman and it's was a female breast on show. The police will be wanting to ensure she knows her place, is given a good talking to, to make sure she acts in a more ladylike manner in future. Because we cannot have breasts being shown in public in a provocative way!! Society as we know it would collapse!!

And don't even get me started on the fact that the law categorises breasts as genitalia. The law is an ass!

And of course feminists defend women. Feminism is about women being treated fairly and equally. About breaking down the ridiculous social constructs of purity and Lolitas and women's bodies being taboo and indecent.

We are here! We have breasts! We are women! It's time people stopped seeing the human body through the lens of millennia-old religious teachings laid down by men, and started seeing bodies as something perfectly normal and natural.

I'm not sure if the Public Order Act applies in Northern Ireland, but if it does, then it doesn't declare any body part indecent, not even genitals. What it would do is make a person a criminal for "... threatening words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour...within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby".

So it would come down to whether a female nipple is likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress, given the context of the parade. Of course (thanks ArseInTheCoOpWindow) it would be far more alarming and distressing if the nipple in question were sweaty. What was the temperature at the time?

It's the sexual offences act - same offence applies in UK and NI. Exposing genitals with intent to cause alarm or distress.

Apologies, it's the Sexual Offences (NI) Order, not Act.

And of course it says 'he' instead of they because the law hasn't caught up with the 'they' movement yet!

And of course feminists defend women.

Do they? I'm a feminist and don't support any old crap a woman does just because they're female.

I believe that this woman's action, however tasteless and stupid it might be, wasn't motivated sexually. Also, breasts are not genitals. Therefore the Sexual Offences Act, or Order, doesn't apply. If this is an offence, then it falls under the Public Order Act, or at least it would in England and Wales. NI might be different.

@TeiTetua I'd be interested in any lawyers on here clarifying whether 'genitals' does include breasts in this context. I think it does.

Where have you got what aspect of the law she's breached? I can't find it in any of the articles. I think it's more likely she's being disorderly in public under the Public Order Act.

I meant sweaty uncovered male or female chests aren’t something l really want to see going about my daily business.

In fact, l don’t want to see them full stop. Sweaty or not.