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Feminism: chat

Is my tennis club sexist policy a breach of the Equalities Act?

43 replies

Serendipityandmore · 17/06/2024 19:25

My local tennis club has run annual tournaments since its inception nearly 100 years ago. The annual tournament comprises men's singles, women's singles, and several doubles (mixed, men's, and women's).

Regrettably, this year, the women's singles competition was discontinued, a move that has left many of us feeling disheartened. However, the men's singles competition will continue as planned.

The decision to scrap it was not put to a member vote, there was no consultation, no explanation was offered, and when questioned the Committee didn't answer.

The Club receives funding from the LTA and Sports England, and as such, they are bound by the LTA's Code of Conduct. Unsurprisingly, the Code prohibits discrimination on the grounds of sex or gender.

This new policy that the Club has clearly disadvantages women (biological women and 'trans women' alike).

Are there any legal people on here who can offer an opinion as to whether this decision to scrap the women's competition could be construed as a breach of the Equalities Act?

OP posts:
Sloejelly · 18/06/2024 09:00

Just to be clear as a third of the population get this wrong:

transwoman = male sex, conceived male, observed (NOT assigned) male at birth, will always be a male. Identifies as his idea of what a woman is. Over 95% retain male genitalia. When they talk of surgery it is usually fake breasts. Even with testosterone suppression their testosterone levels are always well above woman’s. Their pelvis’s do not change shape, their heart and lungs do not shrink, their ‘wing span’ and hand size do not change and their muscles retain their male advantage even with years hormonal and surgical treatments. Like other males, if they do not maintain their training schedule and as they age their performance will drop; this isn’t due to being a transwoman.

transman = female sex, conceived female, observed (not assigned) female at birth, will always be female. Identifies as her idea of what a man is. If she takes testosterone she will gain an advantage in sport - the same as doping with testosterone.

’intersex’ = congenital reproductive disorder = individuals who are either male or female, never a third or ‘inbetween’ sex, who have had their conditions co-opted to suggest that sex is not binary. There are a lot of instances where treansideologist have claimed to have one of these conditions and then totally misrepresent it, often before moving onto a more interesting sounding one and claiming that instead.

BonifaceBonanza · 18/06/2024 09:18

@Serendipityandmore
A small number of transwomen with a GRC are legally “women”. The majority are men living as transwomen and would certainly be eligible for male category.
With regard to the very few with GRC, in national level sport these individuals are rarely eligible for female category (as many sports have prohibited anyone who has been through male puberty entering the female categories).
However I suspect you know all this and that this is a goady faux ignorant post

Serendipityandmore · 18/06/2024 11:46

BonifaceBonanza · 18/06/2024 09:18

@Serendipityandmore
A small number of transwomen with a GRC are legally “women”. The majority are men living as transwomen and would certainly be eligible for male category.
With regard to the very few with GRC, in national level sport these individuals are rarely eligible for female category (as many sports have prohibited anyone who has been through male puberty entering the female categories).
However I suspect you know all this and that this is a goady faux ignorant post

Edited

You seem to be obsessed with the gender issue. This is not central to my post. In fact, you can completely ignore the gender issue. I'll speak plainly because you seem to have issues understanding simple statements.

The Club is scrapping the well-attended women's singles and doubles competitions but keeping the men's singles and doubles competitions.

Do you see the problem with this?

Does that make the problem clearer for you?

What you have said about the legality of trans is nonsense, but that's off-topic and a debate for another day.

OP posts:
Serendipityandmore · 18/06/2024 11:51

Sloejelly · 18/06/2024 09:00

Just to be clear as a third of the population get this wrong:

transwoman = male sex, conceived male, observed (NOT assigned) male at birth, will always be a male. Identifies as his idea of what a woman is. Over 95% retain male genitalia. When they talk of surgery it is usually fake breasts. Even with testosterone suppression their testosterone levels are always well above woman’s. Their pelvis’s do not change shape, their heart and lungs do not shrink, their ‘wing span’ and hand size do not change and their muscles retain their male advantage even with years hormonal and surgical treatments. Like other males, if they do not maintain their training schedule and as they age their performance will drop; this isn’t due to being a transwoman.

transman = female sex, conceived female, observed (not assigned) female at birth, will always be female. Identifies as her idea of what a man is. If she takes testosterone she will gain an advantage in sport - the same as doping with testosterone.

’intersex’ = congenital reproductive disorder = individuals who are either male or female, never a third or ‘inbetween’ sex, who have had their conditions co-opted to suggest that sex is not binary. There are a lot of instances where treansideologist have claimed to have one of these conditions and then totally misrepresent it, often before moving onto a more interesting sounding one and claiming that instead.

Gender is not central to this post. The issue is that the women's competitions are being scrapped, but the men's competitions are retained, and I believe this is sexist.

The whole trans debate is a different conversation for a different day.

Having said that, thank you for your well-written and informative comments, which I happen to agree with totally.

OP posts:
BonifaceBonanza · 18/06/2024 11:52

I did say when I first replied that this is clearly a problem. But you then went on to speak about how transwomen are excluded from the women’s events. Making me think this was the whole purpose of your original post. (This happens more commonly here than you might think).

Sloejelly · 18/06/2024 11:54

What you have said about the legality of trans is nonsense

Which bit? I am sure you can point to the relevant sections of the EA and GRA, plus case law that overrules FWR2, Adams vs ERCC and others?

If your club allows transwomen to play with women then they scrapped women’s competitions a while ago

RamonaRamirez · 18/06/2024 12:14

Hmm I am a tennis player and a member at 3 clubs

Our (big) club does host a women's singles club champs, but it has 2 entries. So I am straight into the finals against an 18 yr old who will kick my ass Grin

If I were to withdraw, there would be no ladies singles championship

In my experience very few women at club level want to play singles

The way I would play this, bearing in mind it is all run by volunteers and women are just not signing up, is to offer to organise the women's single cup myself, and try to get people on board. I would not sue!!!!

RamonaRamirez · 18/06/2024 12:16

At another club I played I have once asked to make the men's an "open" and a few women entered and we completed against men, just to get a game in 😁

Are you sure that women at your club actually want to play singles? If so go for it and ask or organise it

JellySaurus · 18/06/2024 12:24

Carebearsonmybed · 18/06/2024 01:02

No.

That section is if they do have a GRC.
Ie it is legal to excluded them from a tennis comp even with a GRC.

Nope. The PC is ‘gender reassignment’, not having a GRC. Just by proposing to undergo some undefined form of changing gender, the person has that PC.

That said, all males can be excluded from women’s spaces when doing so would be a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

PCcrisps · 18/06/2024 12:33

So there are no transwomen and the women's competition is well supported?

There must be a reason for cancelling. How is it in the interests if the club or the committee to cancel a well supported event?

They must have said something about the reasons.

PCcrisps · 18/06/2024 12:35

RamonaRamirez · 18/06/2024 12:14

Hmm I am a tennis player and a member at 3 clubs

Our (big) club does host a women's singles club champs, but it has 2 entries. So I am straight into the finals against an 18 yr old who will kick my ass Grin

If I were to withdraw, there would be no ladies singles championship

In my experience very few women at club level want to play singles

The way I would play this, bearing in mind it is all run by volunteers and women are just not signing up, is to offer to organise the women's single cup myself, and try to get people on board. I would not sue!!!!

I thought this was the most likely explanation, but OP is convinced the women's competition is more strongly supported than the men's

Serendipityandmore · 18/06/2024 12:53

BonifaceBonanza · 18/06/2024 11:52

I did say when I first replied that this is clearly a problem. But you then went on to speak about how transwomen are excluded from the women’s events. Making me think this was the whole purpose of your original post. (This happens more commonly here than you might think).

Edited

Thanks. I believe cancelling the well-attended women's competitions (singles and doubles) affects women (biological and 'transwomen) as the law currently stands.

In terms of the trans issue, biological males have no place in women's spaces; IMO, the GRA 2004 should be repealed, and greater psychiatric help and restrains should be made available to those suffering from dangerous mental illnesses and paraphilic sexual disorders such as autogynephilia.

Enjoy your day.

OP posts:
Serendipityandmore · 18/06/2024 12:57

PCcrisps · 18/06/2024 12:33

So there are no transwomen and the women's competition is well supported?

There must be a reason for cancelling. How is it in the interests if the club or the committee to cancel a well supported event?

They must have said something about the reasons.

This is what I'm trying to find out. Speaking to the LTA as we speak. I suspect there is a trans element to this.

OP posts:
Fgfgfg · 18/06/2024 13:42

BonifaceBonanza · 18/06/2024 09:18

@Serendipityandmore
A small number of transwomen with a GRC are legally “women”. The majority are men living as transwomen and would certainly be eligible for male category.
With regard to the very few with GRC, in national level sport these individuals are rarely eligible for female category (as many sports have prohibited anyone who has been through male puberty entering the female categories).
However I suspect you know all this and that this is a goady faux ignorant post

Edited

The post is about sex discrimination, not gender discrimination. Gender discrimination, like class discrimination, does not fall within the remit of the Equality Act 2010.

Codlingmoths · 18/06/2024 14:16

I think you risk looking paranoid if you are chasing a trans element here without any basis for it. Like we don’t all know women get discriminated against all the time.

Sloejelly · 18/06/2024 15:41

Nope. The PC is ‘gender reassignment’, not having a GRC. Just by proposing to undergo some undefined form of changing gender, the person has that PC.

The PC of gender reassignment does indeed cover those proposing to undergo some undefined form of changing gender, but what it does not do is mean they must be treated as the opposite sex.

A man with the PC of gender reassignment (transwoman) must not be treated less favourably than any other MAN. For example they must not be excluded from a men’s tennis competition.

Wistfullythinking · 24/06/2024 17:49

Serendipityandmore · 18/06/2024 12:57

This is what I'm trying to find out. Speaking to the LTA as we speak. I suspect there is a trans element to this.

I'm a bit muddled, but now you say you think there is a trans issue to this, but upthread you seem to be saying it's nothing to do with gender.

Are trans women currently playing in the ladies? Or before the tournament was called off?

I'm wondering if your club is trying to get around banning trans women from playing by simply cancelling the whole lot 🤔

Beekeepingmum · 27/06/2024 11:46

I think you have confused the post with the trans comments. If it is just that the women's tournament has been cancelled I think asking why is responsible. Is it that no-one has volunteered to organize it? Normally things get cancelled due to a lack of support in terms of attendees or organizers.

Rather than look to the legals maybe spend the time stepping up to organize it.

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