Dd struggling to believe abuse

[abusedornot]

Bc for this as she knows my usual fwr username.

Her father was extremely abusive towards me and still is after our do or e using our teenagers and gfs to continue.

Dd doesn't know all the details because I don't want her to know. She wants to know why she should believe me over her dad. She's asking my elderly mum about it all and causing upset but I understand she's trying to figure things out.

She says the same abusive things to me that I know are her dad's beliefs.

We have been apart over 10 years and he's never stopped in his abuse. He just can't do it sexually or physically anymore.

How can I handle this? She's been raised a feminist and has been subjected to sexual harassment at school that was swept under the carpet by school so she knows firsthand.

She wants me to play nice with my rapist and source of decades of distress and I just can't.

Teenagers rebel

She's navigating an adult world and doesn't want to think badly of her father

She is forming her own beliefs and opinions which maybe very different from yours and thats ok

He may well be abusive to you and model parent to her. That is her experience does she need to know any different?

He’s a rapist? Jesus. I wouldn’t really want my teen daughter being looked after by a rapist, father or not. Would she not want to know that information so she can make a decision? Or are you saying she refuses to believe he is a rapist? Just trying to clarify. If she’s a feminist I’d expect her to believe women when they accuse men of sexual assault.

@abusedornot I would say it comes from her perspective of being half his DNA. It must be a very challenging realisation and scary path to navigate. You have the perspective of being a separate person from your abuser.

She has to process the abuse, your hurt, her father being a complete other person and then working out as his daughter what does that mean for her values. Her history has literally been torn up and now she has to unpick it all and recategorised it.

Believing, understanding and processing is a life long process for some people. This isn't her not believing it is more than likely working towards understanding and being able to accept belief.

I would give her time and see if she would benefit from some independent support. __

He is far from a model parent to her and her other siblings.
She's known about all this for years but now because she wants me to play nice she's bringing it up. I get it from her point of view (my own dad was abusive in a different way) and it's hard to accept that.
He's a coercive rapist rather than a physical force one. The type who thinks it's hilarious to grope you in your sleep and tell his mates in front of you all your intimate details.

Why would I make it up!? What purpose would that serve? He's been gone over 10 years. I still have nightmares. I've had therapy. Women's Aid have a long call history for me. Why would I make it up.

Awful situation for you. If you tell her the truth - my first instinct - she might not believe you, especially if he's spent years messing with her head and suggesting things weren't as bad as you said. So, find your boundary, what you want her to know, and stick to that. Be resolute and do not be undermined by her trying to find out more.

My dd knew about her father's girlfriend and about the attempted murder because they were in the divorce papers. She didn't know about the rapes until her thirties, when it slipped out in conversation, and she was shocked even then. Your dd might be a bit young to hear the truth. I'm assuming you want to balance this carefully and not lose your relationship with her. Living with her not knowing for a few more years might be better than upsetting her so much she withdraws from your relationship.

God, OP. This must be so very difficult.

I'm glad you've had some help with recovery. I completely understand why you don't want to share everything - I think children need to be protected from too much of that kind of thing. And it's quite hard to understand an abusive dynamic if you can't share.

Generally it's the dynamic that is so destructive and damaging, as much as the specific details, though. I wonder if it's worth trying to explain those aspects of it? Coercion, control, etc. It's bullying, basically, maybe that's easier for a teen to understand?

I wonder if your DD might benefit from some counselling, too?

How old is she?

What does she know, what is she asking your mother, and what is it you are asking her to believe (and why does she need to pick a side on that issue)?

In what way does she want you to 'be nice'? If she doesn't want you to speak badly about him, or wants you both to be able to attend her wedding or graduation without making a scene that's fair enough. If she want to invite him over to yours for a 'happy family dinner' that's a different matter.

She's 15. She doesn't know many details at all, just that he's abusive. One incident that happened (and went to court in terms of a non-molestation order), was when she was about 7 and she was there but not in a position to see, and has therefore said it didn't happen because she didn't see it and her dad has denied it even though afterwards the contact arrangements had to change because he wasn't allowed to come onto our street.
She says I'm being weird for not wanting to be in close proximity to him, for not wanting to meet his "lovely" latest gf or even speak to him in person. She mocks me for moving away if he is near me. It's instinctive to move away from him and I wouldn't be anywhere near him given a choice.

The family court, Cafcass and social services have not been concerned about how abusive he is and ordered child contact to continue.

Can't be any easier to explain why when the court and social services are appearing to tacitly support him. I'm really sorry, OP.

A court case and non-molestation order is certainly evidence that should be convincing, though. Is she aware of that?

I would worry that he's done that thing that abusers do of coming across really wonderful and charismatic as they do. Maybe she's fell for that., thereby she can't believe 'your version of events'

My DD is 12, I've also been apart from her Dad for 10 years. Thankfully, he was only verbally abusive and gas lighting to me. Fortunately, she has seen and can see him for the utter arsehole that he is. She supports me, and knows what men are capable of.

My ex can't hide it, but I'd worry that really dangerous, highly practised abusers have that ability to almost shape shift. After all, it's how they get people to fall for them and how they then coerce and abuse them.

I think as a PP said, if have to tell her as if she is a feminist, it's important that she believes women when they accuse men of assault.

I'd also suggest therapy. I'd be really worried if my DD took her Dad's side. As a feminist, and also because I'd worry he may have effectively 'groomed' her into thinking this way, which is dangeous for her.

Sending hugs as this is such an awful situation for you.

@abusedornot she sounds angry and sadly teens take that out on the one they trust not to leave.

I would suggest counselling together but hopefully this is a short lived phase. She wants a fantasy because she isn't ready for the reality.

Deep down she does believe you, she just is afraid of what it means. In some cases it is fear that they were to blame in not seeing something, not protecting you. Teen minds are peak hell for learning things like this.

Hang in there, make sure you are taking as much self care as possible. Hopefully this will be a short lived stage, 💐

He is very much Mr Innocent Good Guy who was unable to tolerate living with me so he moved out. The reality being that he had an affair. Something that he has previously admitted but now denies and Dd is telling people he didn't have an affair. He was taking Dd out with this woman while still living with me.

I think she is angry, you're right. I'd be angry too. I feel for her with this because it's really difficult to process and he keeps bringing it up and denying everything.

She wouldn't entertain any kind of counselling.

Unfortunately, this is why I don't believe that a man's abuse should be hidden from a child. it doesn't have to be endless bad mouthing and excessive detail, but years of encouraging her to believe that "me and daddy just don't get on so we can't be together but we both love you very much" causes these problems.

I would tell her the truth. You don't have to go into completely explicit detail but tell her about the violence and sexual abuse. Tell her that, like many women, you were encouraged to believe it was your fault and/or that it was not that serious. But it was. Point out the consequences there were for him. Remind her of her own personal experience of not being believed.

And then, honestly, I would refuse to engage further. If she is hounding you, a basic response, on repeat, "I do not plan to spend any time with a man who sexually abused me".

I agree some therapy would be good for her - a safe space to say whatever she wants.

It must be very difficult to know on one level that your dad is horrible but on another to love him. She wants it all to go away - for her dad to just be a decent guy whose marriage ended - and she needs you to act in a certain way to achieve that fiction.

I would simply say to her "dd, my relationship with your dad was our business. How I react to him is my business. We are no longer together. I know our history and so does he. I don't have to behave in any particular way to him now so stop trying to manage me into doing so. Just enjoy your relationship with him yourself and leave me out of it"

I think it's difficult. The world is trying to get your DD to accept conflicting things. Both that your ex is abusive enough to have acourt order, and that he is a trustworthy person to care for her. The courts have supported both stories, even though they conflict with each other.

At some level she will desperately want it all not to be true. She must have a lot of different emotions, thoughts, and feelings going on all at once.

The first thing to do is acknowledge how hard this is for you. And take steps for self care. Make sure you have time and space dedicated to processing all the emotions this will inevitably bring up. Maybe extra therapy sessions? Or a meditation course, or calls to a friend.

And then you support your child.

I'm going to suggest listening, OP. Actively listening. So it's not so much about what you tell her, but letting her talk about how she's feeling. Are there certain places, activities, times, that she is more likely to open up? Can you take a day to spend with her to hang out, spend time with her and allow her space to open up? She may want to show anger, or fear, or confusion, or any emotion, and all of those are okay and you need to let her know you are able to handle them all and protect her and love her whatever she's feeling.

She needs to know that she is safe, that you will keep her safe. She needs to make sense of the contradictory parts of the story. I suppose she is trying to work it all out.

None of this will be easy, but it's clear that you love your daughter and I know you'll find a way. I wish you both all the very best.

I agree that if she is old enough - have I missed age? - you should start to open up about some of the things he has put you through, maybe just the basics first. I didn't do this with dd's dad and was textbook about not painting him in a bad light. 12 years later and he is trying to take me to court for full custody after popping back into her life last year and sending her a lot of nasty messages about me that meant she blocked him. He didn't have the same scruples and now we have a court case and she is highly anxious they might force her to see him. Honesty is important for trust, but you know best how much she can handle at her age and understand. Would also set up therapy as others have said - dd really did appreciate being able to talk through some of the things he raged about to her with someone impartial.

Stinkerantibiotic she's 15.

I've told her that she's entitled to her opinions and beliefs and I'm entitled to behave according to my experience. I reiterated that feminists believe other women and don't go accusing them of lying about men abusing them. I hope she'll think on it. She's young and upset. She's being poisoned by him. I get it. I hope she will be stronger than his poison. Might take a long time but she's a very intelligent young woman and a deep thinker so she'll get there.

I reiterated that feminists believe other women and don't go accusing them of lying about men abusing them.

In this context this is your daughter, a young girl, who is confused and struggling. It's about your relationship, not feminist ethics.

You come across as angry, which is understandable. I can imagine her behaviour has been very hurtful, but that perhaps complicates things in the context of supporting your daughter.

She may already feel guilty about her part in the abuse. She may well be angry, too - and much of that might be unjustified and difficult to hear. Emotions can be confusing and irrational by definition, and to heal and move on one needs to be allowed to feel them, however 'wrong' they may be.

Which is why I think the key here is to allow her the space to let out all the feelings and work through them. This may be best done with counselling or a therapist, and perhaps that would be easier if you find it very difficult, which again, would be completely understandable.

AstonUniRank I'm not angry at her, just him. 10 years since he left and he's still causing damage.
She's not receptive to discussing this with professionals but maybe will do in future. At the moment she is preferring to speak to his current gf about it who of course denies he would do anything like that even though he treats her like shit in front of the dc. It's horrible. She's smart though, scarily smart, and I think she will work through this at her own pace and in her own way. She knows she can always talk to me but that I won't discuss intimate details.