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Feminism: chat

A Sikh court set up in London

17 replies

Sausagenbacon · 01/06/2024 07:49

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/31/the-world-is-getting-its-first-sikh-court-in-london-but-this-is-why-we-need-to-pay-close-attention-to-it
I find this very worrying and shocking. This will mean we have a parallel legal system, to the detriment of women.

The world is getting its first Sikh court in London. That’s a threat to women’s rights | Pragna Patel

With the UK judicial system cut to breaking point, conservative religious forces are moving into a space vacated by the state, says Project Resist’s Pragna Patel

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/31/the-world-is-getting-its-first-sikh-court-in-london-but-this-is-why-we-need-to-pay-close-attention-to-it

OP posts:
viques · 06/06/2024 08:56

Thank you for raising this. It does seem incredible that religious communities, who are known for the patriarchal way they curtail woman's freedoms and woman's legal rights in many parts of the world , are being supported to import their mysogynistic attitudes into a country which already has a sturdy legal system which offers support and legal redress to women who are being oppressed within their homes and following marriage breakups.

It’s a bit like saying, wow, in China they find that having the death penalty really helps to reduce murder rates, or in Afghanistan they don’t get nearly as many cases of adultery since they brought back public flogging, so let’s tweak our laws to deal with those specifics, because it won’t affect most people, only murderers and adulterers.

There is no reason why judges in the UK can’t be made aware of how “ cultural” sensitivities, however they are defined, could affect legal judgements in the UK. It would probably only involve a slight adjustment to initial training, because UK laws deal with the needs of human beings living and working in the UK, not the wishes of the self appointed guardians of deities and long dead prophets clinging on to their interpretation of outdated ideas.

Women in the UK of whatever background, cultural alliance or religious affiliation should be protected by UK law. Issues of domestic violence, marital or family breakdown, financial and emotional abuse should be seen as falling under the existing UK precepts, and if there are areas which for any reason are not covered by UK statute then it is up to the UK government to remedy this.

I have no beef with religions, but do not believe that any religion should have the rights to reach into a UK citizens secular life.

RafaistheKingofClay · 06/06/2024 09:04

Is there any evidence that judges aren’t taking cultural sensitivities into account within the boundaries of U.K. law? Or is it just that the outcome was different to the one a Sikh/sharia/Jewish court might come up with?

LastTrainEast · 06/06/2024 09:19

I would say that if you don't like UK law there are endless other countries and legal systems to choose from. Just find one where your 'needs' can be satisfied without you being arrested/imprisoned.

WhitstablePearl · 06/06/2024 12:26

There are a number of separate Court Systems in the UK - religious & otherwise - which are designed for dealing with specific types of disputes. For example, the arbitration system.

However, no-one can be forced to us any "other" system, than the main system, unless they opt in.

However, there is always a risk that people will be coerced or that they will not realise they have a choice, which needs to be fiercely guarded against.

RafaistheKingofClay · 06/06/2024 16:37

It’s the coercion aspect that worries me about ‘not understanding our culture’. I don’t have any issue with the principle providing both parties are entering into it freely.

Baaliali · 06/06/2024 17:03

It is depressing every step forward for women there is this vocal misogynistic minority from somewhere or other trying to put them back into to the box of oppression.

mitogoshi · 06/06/2024 17:12

These "courts" do not have legal standing in the U.K. so are more like a mediation mechanism for child custody, assets splitting, family conflicts etc- they still need to be presented to the normal secular court for approval. I don't actually like the idea myself but strongly feel that they should not be allowed to use the term court

spicysamosahotcupoftea · 06/06/2024 17:23

I'm Sikh (UK-born British citizen) and I don't agree with this.

Religious courts do not belong in the UK.

If people want such courts / religious law, they need to make a choice to go live in a country that supports this.

Religious courts are bullshit.

BardsAreAssholes · 09/06/2024 23:49

It's a very worrying development. Any religious court is going to benefit men as the rules it abides are are intrinsically misogynistic.

It sounds sort of well meaning, giving weight to cultural and religious beliefs that the secular court may not be able to assess in context. But just a moment of reflection and it's obvious how this could be used and abused to women's detriment.

PearlKoala · 09/06/2024 23:55

BardsAreAssholes · 09/06/2024 23:49

It's a very worrying development. Any religious court is going to benefit men as the rules it abides are are intrinsically misogynistic.

It sounds sort of well meaning, giving weight to cultural and religious beliefs that the secular court may not be able to assess in context. But just a moment of reflection and it's obvious how this could be used and abused to women's detriment.

It isn't really a 'development' though? The UK has had religious courts for years just not sikh ones until now. This is just another one.

LumiB · 10/06/2024 00:23

As a Sikh I find this shocking and completely unnecessary.

viques · 16/06/2024 21:19

That is a very strong and reasoned statement.Thank you for posting it.

cupcaske123 · 17/06/2024 10:14

Misogyny often goes under the radar in the name of 'culture'. We shouldn't have religious courts in the UK.

makeanddo · 17/06/2024 13:34

This is why migrants want to come here, we're soft.

This makes me so angry, no respect for our culture and laws. If you want to live under different rules go and live in a country that follows those rules. Religious rules/laws are just made up - normally to benefit men. With Labour this stuff will get worse.

YellowAsteroid · 17/06/2024 14:09

Brava, Pragna Patel! If there were any justice in this country, she'd be Dame Pragna and in the House of Lords. She is brave & strong, and her non-nonsense but compassionate understanding of women's lives is extraordinary.

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