Tennis: Women’s tournament at Queen’s Club dependent on state of grass for men’s

[GinJarRogers]

There was a segment on Woman’s Hour today about the ATP potentially blocking the introduction of a women’s tournament at Queen’s Club because of concerns it would compromise the grass for the men’s tournament. The interviewee, sports broadcaster Catherine Whitaker, described the situation as “men’s tennis [acting] as the gatekeeper of the success of women’s tennis”.

I’ve tried to look into this further but all the articles I have found simply report the position with no commentary on how outrageous it is that the men don’t want - and may prevent - women playing because the grass might not be quite as good for them.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/68819194.amp

That's a silly excuse, they seem to manage it just fine at Wimbledon.

Caveat, it's a bit shit at the end, but that's the same for everyone.

Nottingham does it too.

Birmingham will lose out if the women play Queen's!

I thought there was already a women's Wimbledon warm up competition on grass elsewhere?

The courts do suffer from too much use.

Yes Wimbledon manage it.
Seems like men are happy to support (tolerate?) women’s sport until it mildly inconveniences them, and that’s just accepted rather than being challenged or called out.

Wimbledon has more championship courts.

Wimbledon is two weeks

But a larger entry field on both sides, plus juniors, wheel chair tennis etc, it probably evens out in the long run.

What’s wrong with keeping it at Eastbourne?

There is Eastbourne which is the women’s “equivalent” but it has nowhere near the prestige or profile that Queen’s has.

@JaneJeffer makes a good point re Birmingham, too though, that would become less popular depending on ranking points and that's not a good thing for supporters outside London.

Men’s tennis massively subsidises women’s tennis vs the grand slams allocating equal prize money.

The reality is that tennis is entertainment and the vast majority of people want to see the men play (including women). Look how the court’s empty of spectators for the women’s matches (except finals).

The real evidence can be seen in the black market ticket prices for the later rounds when the sexes have their own days:

Centre Court Debenture Tickets

Gentlemen's Singles Semi-Finals

Fri 12th July 2024
CENTRE COURT
£5950(excl. VAT)

Centre Court Debenture Tickets

Ladies' Singles Semi-Finals

Thu 11th July 2024
CENTRE COURT
£1875(excl. VAT)

The men’s tickets command 3x the price.

I am not sure about Queens and it does sound a weak excuse but they women don’t have a right to a tournament there. Maybe they don’t have the same number of courts as some of the others that run both tournaments simultaneously, or the number of groundspeople.

Again, Birmingham does not have Queen’s profile. And regardless of the merit of these arguments they are not the objections being levied at having a women’s tournament at Queen’s. It’s the ATP’s objections that the grass won’t be as good for the men which is standing in the way.

Not sure of the relevance of your post in this discussion, Newbutoldfather. The sole objection is not about finances but about men not wanting to share the grass.

The relevance is obvious when you think about it. Grass gets over-used- both competitions will suffer.
Men's tennis brings in more spectators, and effectively subsidies women's tennis.
The men's game gets prioritized because it brings in more money.

It’s not a given that the men’s competition will suffer as a result of grass overuse if the women are allowed to play. But taking that approach, if you’re going to deny women opportunity based on the financial status quo how will they ever be able to bring in the same money as the men?

I agree that women's sport has been held back deliberately by misogyny and that extra money and attention must be given to remedy that.

However, the elephant in the room IMO, is that although I know slightly fewer women than men who play sport, I know far fewer women who spectate or could be considered fans. For me, that is an equally large obstacle to women's sport being as lucrative or popular.

So to answer your question, if women won't spectate or take part as 'fans', the sad fact is that women's sport won't bring in as much money as men's

I suspect that’s not to do with the venue. Through this lens, a women’s tournament at Queens feels like riding on the coat tails of the men’s game.

It’s widely recognised by professionals that it is the venue. Hence the push to have a women’s tournament at The Queen’s Club in the first place.

If you like women's tennis then Eastbourne is the prestige run up to Wimbledon.

It's not 'less prestigious' because it's in Eastbourne, it's only less prestigious if you don't rate women's tennis.

Irrelevant fact: when my DM was a nanny she was told to take the children to Queen's Club once a week. They all thought it was stuck up and boring so she used to take them to a Wimpey instead.