Fat activism

[JustParkAngryFace]

I honestly do not know quite where to put this topic, so sorry if it does not fit here. I didn’t think it was right for the weight loss forums. It is mostly women I see speaking in this topic and I am interested in a general discussion and view points. I have no intention of criticising anyone’s bodies specifically and don’t mean any offence to anyone struggling with this.

I have been slowly drawn into the topic of fat acceptance/activism, predominantly if not all via social media. I believe this is likely coming in my feeds as I have been morbidly obese before and had issues with food myself. During my journey of self acceptance and self education I have read and explored lots of view points and information. I wanted to understand myself and find like minded people. I went into this as a woman who has faced a mixed bag of poor and also some positive attitudes towards my obese weight from health professionals and men. I no longer wanted to be obese as I was scared about my future health and have struggled for many years with this.

I came across a wide range of women who I think fit the term fat activist (of their own label), who liken obesity to racism and oppression. They also say that medicine is prejudiced against them and obesity has no direct links to diseases. I have also seen them say that to not want to be obese yourself and promote health, is a form of fat phobia. Some more extreme views can be that others hate fat people and don’t want them in society. There can be a lot of infighting in FA circles about your size and what qualifies to be classed as fat, with small fat, super fat categories.

I have also watched or read others who debunk some of this rhetoric as incorrect and class this as ‘ideology’ like a cult (I do not watch or read the mean or cruel viewpoints as this is just that - cruel and mean). The other side says that obesity increases all your health risks and that fat activism is harmful to young women’s mental health, especially with the rise of being paid to eat excessive amounts of food on camera. I have seen some of the what I eat in a day videos and it’s alarming. The other side of commentators express concerns about the rejections of health advice and that it is not fat phobic to want to be healthy.

When I was growing up I was exposed to the beauty standards of being very thin, so it is good to see so many more real bodies in the mainstream. I have daughters so this does worry me. Whilst I am trying to protect them from unrealistic expectations of women in culture like fillers, surgery and expectations from men about porn sex, there is also body image and healthy eating in both directions of over and under eating to also contend with.

I suppose the issue is - what does ‘health’ mean anymore? Is it actually subjective? If my doctor tells me I am ok for now but could be better, and may struggle later in life does this mean you are healthy or not healthy? To women now does this mean how you feel every day, or does it mean how you look? Does it mean just go with what you are feeling at this point in time and not worry about the future repercussions? Or does it mean plan ahead and try to avoid risks? It’s easy to lose perspective.

I am worried about what this means for women long term, as scientists tell us society is becoming more obese, I understand why women are pushing back on it due to medical discrimination, but to the extent of what I have seen it’s concerning and is it helping? I think this might be mostly online right now but will this become more apparent in every day life?

I don’t believe there is anywhere near enough mental help for eating disorders like binge eating, at all and people will often give up hope when things are tough and comfort eat to cope. It can be an illness that is very hard to treat and not helped by exploiting 600lb women on American TV shows.

Has anyone come across this, what are your thoughts?

Your OP touches on a lot of issues, but regarding "fat acceptance", I don't believe in it, not the iteration that seems to be prevalent. I thought the idea of "fat acceptance" was really meant to suggest that nobody should be ashamed to do normal things or wear normal clothes that other people do and wear without a thought, such as wearing a swimsuit on the beach or wearing leggings for exercising, just because they are carrying extra weight. And that makes perfect sense and should be so.

But now it seems to be what you described in your OP, with people making massive leaps suggesting that an obese person who wants to lose weight is "fat phobic". I particularly dislike when they try to convince us that being overweight to any degree doesn't cause disease. While I could never cite any specific studies to say that being overweight causes disease or increases one's likelihood of developing certain diseases, I thought it was a very well established fact that just cannot be denied.

Regarding the question of what it is to be "healthy", it seems very difficult for us as a whole to grasp. There's always something new to add or take away or change or increase in our lives so we can be healthier and fitter and live physically easier lives in the future. I think people should ignore all of the noise and quietly work out for themselves what are the most important things and the things they want to prioritise, otherwise it's so easy to get swept up in striving for health or fitness via the one most talked about thing at the moment, and I think for most people it's not helpful, and I say that based on the fact that more than half of the country is overweight or obese, so obviously something is going wrong somewhere. I think it's an overload of information and not sticking for long enough with whichever path one decides to take to increase health and fitness.

And I also wanted to mention something I saw in a video a while ago. Tess Holliday was in a gym with a trainer, and she was doing some plyometric exercises, if I remember correctly. I watched this video at a time when there was a very clear "fat AND fit" message out there. The implication in the video was that she might be obese but she is "fit" because she can do these plyo exercises. I suppose that could be argued, but she'd arguably be fitter if she were to lose half of her bodyweight (plus she doesn't know the impact in her later years that such high-impact exercises might have on her joints). The people who believe it's possible to be fat and fit seem to want to overlook that having the benefits of practicing yoga, for example, or doing strength training, or walking five miles a day, or whatever it might be, probably don't mean all that much if you have an excess of visceral fat covering your organs and your heart has to work harder than it should need to.

But I understand it's so difficult to know what to do when there are so many messages out there, some of which are contradictory, so I'm not surprised that we so often fail to be healthy.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. (I was thinking about this in the shower just a couple of mornings ago, so it's all still on my mind!)

Thank you that’s really interesting to listen to your view point I agree on many points. I have tried to listen to the activists but I find them contradictory and confusing. There is a woman called Virgie Tovar and trying to work out her points is absolutely chaotic.

The whole point of being comfortable in clothes and spaces with whatever their body type is has been completely lost in a sea of ‘eat whatever you like gain as much as you want and everyone else can fuck off, the BMI is all lies made up by white supremacists to oppress us’. Tess H is a very interesting point, she is one of the most famous plus sized women, she is incredibly rich and has a lot of opportunities.. how is she oppressed? Because people point out her version of fat and fit doesn’t really work, as you say.

Anyone is only as fit as they are able to be with the challenges they are faced with, health restrictions (chronic pain or illness) but when does obesity become a lifestyle choice? For me, not being obese has been a change of lifestyle. I am still the same person with the same life I just have to eat less. over Eating was never my happy identity.

Creating your own version of health when you have no medical or science degree, based on your own emotions is just delusional and alarming.

Yes OP, I hope this doesn't turn into a post simply shaming women for being fat, but I agree with you. I was in a Fat Positivity FB group but it ended up being just as you described, and I don't engage.

But just like any other topic, there are groups with more extreme views, and that is an example of one of them. It doesn't mean that everyone who says they are fat accepting feels that way.

As the PP above stated, this is fat acceptance for me: I thought the idea of "fat acceptance" was really meant to suggest that nobody should be ashamed to do normal things or wear normal clothes that other people do and wear without a thought, such as wearing a swimsuit on the beach or wearing leggings for exercising, just because they are carrying extra weight.

I have PCOS, am on medication that restricts my diet and still struggle to lose weight. But I am trying. It's not simple. But yes I accept myself as I am in my state and do not feel ashamed by it.

I would say that any information shared through Social Media is extreme clickbait. Information can be gleaned by discerning research on the web. Socials must be viewed as ‘just for fun’. Do not turn off your critical faculties while watching!

If we can get that message across, we’d help many people being confused by many messages.

I have a lot in common with you and agree with your concerns.

Drs tell you to lose weight instead of addressing your health needs.

Not being allowed out in clothes which aren’t flattering- it’s obligatory to try and look good, it’s ok to fail it’s NOT OK to not bother!

Regarding healthy lifestyles- we’ll all focus on what we can and try and be a bit better than we currently are, every little helps, do what you can
BUT
There used to be an NHS app that rated your health by putting you in a queue- it showed you where you were as your position in a queue of 100. I did all sorts of things and failed to advance up the queue. The only thing that would have made a difference was losing weight. The other things (oily fish, veg etc) must have helped the top ten shuffle up a step!

As a non smoking/drinking dog walking cook, my weight was my only issue. Everything else was tickety boo and I was relatively healthy despite obesity- low blood pressure etc.

So watch your weight, move, don’t smoke or drink much.

That seems to be it.

I think there is a lot of fat phobia out there. My parents and grandparents are so rude about anyone overweight. We do seem to have slim genes in the family so I think for a lot of people it’s not easy to loose weight and being over critical really isn’t going to help. However I do confess I am not a fan of Fat Activism and think it’s on the whole unhealthy. I have an overweight influencer friend who regularly posts pics of herself in underwear on social media. She says it’s a form of empowerment and body positivity. To me it just seems shallow and another way of receiving validation for physical appearance. At the same time they criticise bikini pics of slim women. Seems like a double standard to
me and I don’t think either are empowering for women. Surely both reduce women to being objects?

I also worry greatly about the amount of obese children I see. I live in one of the most overweight areas in the UK and feel that people shouldn’t normalise obesity because of the impact it has on children.

I do worry about children and young people certainly, what with the very alarming rise of popularity of mukbangs which apparently people seem to love watching online? I can’t say I understand it. But if people see others doing it and earning money from it it might be something they are tempted to start doing?

There is certainly fat phobia, I have experienced it, it’s awful. No one should be made to feel inferior or demeaned for their appearance or feel ashamed and I support that till the end of time. What I can’t support is the extreme views.

Being in your underwear online is being in your underwear online no matter what you size but for FA, this is viewed as forcing people to face their fat phobia and fighting oppression by apparently making people feel uncomfortable with the imagery and it is seem as braver and more important for them to do this than someone who is conventionally beauty standard slim or smaller. I can’t see how it is less or more empowering to be honest either way.

No one should feel ashamed of who they are, or what they look like.

But fat activism is harmful in my view. I felt that when I was morbidly obese and I feel it now that I am a stone overweight.

Its no different to glamourising fags, drugs, self harm (and I include mutilation for body dysmorphia reasons).

Being overweight is bad for your health and bad for society in terms of the impact it has on medical care.

@JustParkAngryFace thats interesting I never realised the underwear picks were about forcing people to face fat phobia. I just think it’s all a bit pathetic. My friends pretends she does it to empower women but she really does it for attention and exhibitionism (I think). If you really didn’t care about what people think why do it? Ironically she always poses in a way that makes her look slimmer! She ultimately still wants people to like her figure.

I watch my weight and work out as I like the way I physically feel when I am slim. I hate how I feel when I put on weight and it always makes my health worse.

I completely agree that shaming people for their size is never okay. But I also question the fat activist agenda.

I think there's a class dimension here too. We know that obesity is more prevalent in groups with low income and fewer resources. And then I see some of the fat activists (including academics who work in this area) advocating radical fat acceptance, but are themselves slim and healthy, and it feels uncomfortable to me. Shouldn't we be challenging the awful health inequalities in this country, and lobbying for greater access to healthy food and exercise facilities, rather than telling (mainly) poor people that it's absolutely fine to be obese (when we all know that it brings a host of health problems)?

Perpetually offended fat lasses.

(I say that as a fat lass myself...)

@MotherofPearl you know what I think you have summed up all my internal thoughts!! FA is not the solution. There are so many other things to spend your energy on changing, like access to health services and fighting big food co’s and reducing UPF intake. Is this just not as sexy?

I don't know why but I guess it's easier to accept the status quo - or in the case of FA, embrace it - than tackle the poverty and inequality that account for at least some of the obesity and health problems we see around us. That requires a political engagement.

FA seems to have gone in the same direction as many other things in contemporary society. Brexit, gender identity, international conflicts.....reducing multifaceted issues with interdependencies to good/ bad and right/wrong.

The Zoe podcast this week was really interesting. It talked about different fat cells in hips and legs versus the stomach (they look very different apparently). I had previously thought that fat on hips and legs was healthier than tummy fat as tummy fat was nearer important organs and linked to visceral fat around those organs. But, it's more complex than that. Apparently, women get more tummy fat after menopause as this is where sone oestrogen is made and it helps compensate (a little) when the ovaries stop producing it.
The podcast spoke about fat acceptance but in a nuanced way and focussed on health.

So many people take ip hardened positions based on limited information and then simply claim that those who challenge their position are discriminatory without engaging in the counter points presented. Or, the counter points are dismissed as 'biased' or 'out dated' without the substance of them being attended to.

Fat can be good and/or bad. The amount of fat individuals can have and be healthy differs. People carrying lots of fat are discriminated against, and lots of people make negative character assumptions/ attributions about people carrying lots of fat. FA that doesn't accommodate or attend to this becomes unevidenced ideology