Unfeminist Fantasies

[AgathaAllAlong]

Just wondering if any other self-professed feminist gets this every now and again, and what I should do to kick myself up the arse!

Recently I'm feeling very run down. I have a bad relationship with DP, a difficult and full on job I'm struggling with, a preschooler, money worries. And I have started to crave what I can only describe as a very unfeminist lifestyle. I find myself wanting a man who is strong and able to shoulder the responsibility of the whole family, ideally someone who will support the family by working hard and earning good money while I manage the house and look after the kids. Someone who will protect me and take the lead. Pay for holidays, do DIY, be someone we can all rely on.

Ok, so in reality I would probably last five minutes in this imagined relationship (not the DIY bit, that would be great). I have worked hard for my career and out-earn DP and we balance days with DC. But he has become so weak! Nothing is ever good enough for him, he moans all the time, he's quick to anger, he goes around kicking things and swearing at the slightest problem (this morning it was because I hung clothes to dry "wrong"). He doesn't earn enough to support himself, let alone the family, despite being qualified and having the possibility of over time. He expects me to do all the child related chores, like choose dinners, organise christmas, do bedtimes. I resent it so much.

I think he feels the same. He came into this relationship 15 years ago as a feminist, happy to equally share chores, happy for me to really go for it career wise. But since DC he's many times experessed in essence that he thought I would change and be more of a "typical mum" and "normal woman". He wishes I would make an effort with my appearance and clothes (by which he means, look like a well put together middle class Lucy & Yak mum), work hard to make the home nice, spend time choosing decor, cook lovely food, wash everyone's clothes.

I feel like we've both gone at it early on with no traditional roles and now, far too late, both feel resentful about it. And I'm especially annoyed because it goes agaist my deepest principles.

I think if I was in your relationship I would also fantasise about a dream alternative life scenario.

Gently, OP but you're already living what might be described as an unfeminist lifestyle:
Nothing is ever good enough for him, he moans all the time, he's quick to anger, he goes around kicking things and swearing at the slightest problem (this morning it was because I hung clothes to dry "wrong")....He expects me to do all the child related chores, like choose dinners, organise christmas, do bedtimes... He wishes I would make an effort with my appearance and clothes (by which he means, look like a well put together middle class Lucy & Yak mum), work hard to make the home nice, spend time choosing decor, cook lovely food, wash everyone's clothes.

Nothing about this screams independent, confident, capable, competent woman. What are you doing with this man, OP?

I hear you. I married someone who earns less than me. He was a stay at home dad for a while but didn’t particularly take on the mental load - cooked crappy dinners, minimal housework, didn’t bother with play dates or anything. Now we both work full time and all the mental load is still on me. I find myself wishing I’d married “better” so that I could at least take a step back at work and focus more on the home stuff.

It’s still feminism though - it’s the patriarchy that dictates that women still have to do everything else (or organise and pay other women to do it), whether we’re high earning or not.

@KStockHERO I know that you're right. I guess it's "feminist" in the sense that I earn my own money, and don't do extra domestic chores for anyone else. But I do see how living with someone like this also erodes my confidence and joy isn't great.

@Hobbes8 yes! this is it, in essence. If I'm going to do it all anyway, I might as well have married a man who holds up the male side of traditional roles! As it is, I do it all, both the traditioanlly male and traditionally female roles. Sick of it! I want to be respected.

I never in a thousand million years thought I would envy my SAHM friend with her "man of the house" husband, but I actually do. She gets to focus on her children, her house always looks lovely, and she doesn't worry about money.

Your problem isn’t unfeminist fantasies. It's a bad relationship.

He came into this relationship 15 years ago as a feminist [...] But [...] he thought I would change and be more of a "typical mum" and "normal woman".

He was never a feminist. He was an old fashioned MCP who'd learnt to parrot the right phrases.

Exactly. You appear to be at the mercy of an unpleasant man. It's weird that you describe this behaviour as 'weak' when in fact he appears to be dominating, critical. and prescriptive. ( I mean, it's likely it comes from unhappiness with himself, but I'm not going to devote mental energy to figuring out why a prick is a prick...) He needs not to avoid taking his issues out on you, whatever their source.

You don't need to be a SAHM, which is really not an enviable position, you need not to be married to someone awful.

I'd be unpicking your own muddle thought processes too -- you seem to be suggesting that his behaviour would be more palatable to you if he outearned you, or was equally critical of your laundry and appearance, but you were a SAHM?

@HolySkirts HolySkirts Thanks, this is very inisghtful. You're right, my thinking is definitely muddled up here - I describe him as weak because I see him as having zero inner emotional strenght or ability to shoulder responsibility. It's like he needs someone to always be appeasing him, telling him he's cool and correct, and he has no ability to regulate his emotions when things don't go his way. The opposite of a stoic, strong person. Emotionally strong people in control of their lives don't completely lose it over insignificant things, they don't go around kicking the toys of small children because their wives decided to go to the shop on a day they didn't want to (a real example from sunday). He can't do anything - can't organise his own days off work to go on holiday, can't sort out a house, yet he's "despressed" because what we have is always shit (according to him). He can't handle anything.

I don't really see it as domineering because it's so ineffective. His bahviour is pathetic and I do not respect him at all. I usually laugh in his face and say something sarcastic like "ooooh big strong man, we're all so afraid of you now you've kicked a tiny child's toy, oooh wow I respect you so much more now."

I don't think his behaviour would be more acceptable if I were a SAHM. But some irrational aprt of me just thinks it's so fucking unfair that I have to spend all day every day at work to support everyone including him, away from my little DC and with no mental space to do any of the family and house stuff, only to then put up with this shit from him. I know that's completely illogical though and that it would be worse if I didn't have a job, in terms of levarage.

it's so fucking unfair that I have to spend all day every day at work to support everyone including him, away from my little DC and with no mental space to do any of the family and house stuff, only to then put up with this shit from him

You've mostly worked out the problem, but you need to recalculate the solution. You need to subtract the thing causing the problem. That thing is not your work.

I don't think the issue is strong/weak. I think its about man/boy.

You want to be in a relationship with a man - an adult male who is mature, who acts his age, who pulls his weight, treats you as his equal, has control of his emotions, takes responsibility, engages in reciprocal care.
Of course, there are then different flavours of men under that umbrella that make for lighthearted threads on MN (i.e. I wish my DP could do any kind of DIY) but all start from the fundamental place that you're in a mutually loving, caring and respectful relationship with a grown adult.

But you're not. You're in a relationship with a child - immature, acting like a teenager, doing nothing, treats you like an appendage or a servant, no control over his emotions, gives responsibility over to you, doesn't demonstrate care towards you the way we'd expect from an adult.

So I don't think your feminist fantasies are about negotiating what we might call an 'unfeminist life' within an adult relationship - for example you opting to drop your work hours in exchange for more domestic responsibility but under the assumption of full access to all finances.

Your 'unfeminist fantasies' are actually very 'feminist fantasies' about having a relationship with an adult man who will carry half the load with you. I suspect you don't actually want a man who will shoulder all the responsibility and just look after you. I suspect you want a man who'll just take his rightful half of the mental load. There is absolutely nothing unfeminist about that.

Read your posts back, OP - Is this really the way you want to spend the rest of your life? Is this really the image of family life you want to present to your kids? Is this really the image of men-women relationships you want to model for them?

Dude you laugh in his face and take the piss - this marriage is over, that is contempt. Do you still want to have sex with him - I doubt it.

Time to split up - you'll be happier - and get thee on a dating website, there are lots of manly men, you can at least have a fantasy over them x

I have made my peace with the "unfeminist" nature of enjoying being with a man who will step up and do man things.
When I was younger I had a string of terrible relationships with useless men. I thought that there was some unspoken pact where I didn't expect him to do "man" things and in return, he didn't expect me to do "woman" things. It wasn't like that from their POV. They were all lazy men who just thought "yay, found a woman who does everything. I don't have to do anything" and dressed it up in "feminist" language (sometimes, when they could be bothered).
Before I had children that was annoying and unattractive at times, but actually - how much work goes into supporting two able bodied young adults? It took away from my leisure time rather than my actual life force.

After I had children, I realised (too late) that there is easily more than two adults' labour in running and supporting a house and a family with babies / small children. Easily. And I realised I had to do all the woman stuff, and more of the man stuff (earning) than he did. It wasn't sustainable. I was a wreck.

Obviously our relationship did not survive that.

I am now in a relationship with a man who defines himself partly by his willingness and ability to step up and be a man. It is the first time I have been in a relationship with someone who genuinely contributes and I don't care how unfeminist it is that he builds things, fixes things, provides things. I could not care less because I bloody deserve to be with someone who does bloody something, and my kids deserve a mum who is well enough to laugh with them and be human some of the time.

In theory, a man who does "woman" things as well as a woman would be just as good, if you were happy enough with that division of labour. But I challenge you to find one. I challenge you to find a man who does SAHP that is not a half arsed job, socialises in the community, shows up for the kids all day all night, cooks properly every day not just a show off one weekend a year - I challenge you.

There is nothing "unfeminist" in wanting to be a stay at home mother with a capable man as long as you protect your own interests.

What is unfeminist is putting up with a whiny manchild.

Also men can never be feminists. They can support feminism, but they can never be a feminist as most of them just do not get it.