His response from "why angry men are scary".... He wants help now

[psed]

So I started a thread trying to explain to my DP why angry men are scary.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4910330-help-needed-to-explain-why-angry-men-are-scary

I showed him the thread a few days ago. He read my post and was immediately really upset. He said he didn't fully get it till now, and really felt for me and my experiences to date. He read through the replies and some were really helpful for him. He had a question though.... What does he do now? What can he do?

I gave him my personal opinions (like crossing the road away from women when alone at night so he doesn't pose as a threat) but there might be things that others have experienced that could be helpful. What do you want him to know? How can he behave that might help?

I’m glad he’s trying to tackle this. From my own experiences, my alarm bells ring if a man stands too close to me, or blocks my exit from a room, or stares at me.

And he should never lose his temper with you; it’s even intimidating if he loses it with someone else.

I meant strangers, but actually I feel the same with men I know.

my alarm bells ring if a man stands too close to me, or blocks my exit from a room, or stares at me.

I mean even if he does those things unconsciously, or in a friendly way. My point is that he doesn’t need to look hostile or predatory. Just his body language and actions, even if unintentional, are enough to set off my alarms.

Well he could also stop expecting women to do all the work for him and spelling it out for him.

This. Jesus wept. Why are you having to facilitate this for him?

I agree with the crossing road at night etc, keeping distance on empty late night trains etc. Not so sure about not standing near the door around women you know etc. If the men I knew started doing that I'd be a bit wtf. Would strike me as odd.

He doesn't have to stop getting angry but he should find a better way to manage his anger. He can acknowledge he is feeling angry and ask for space to calm down, then walk away. He should learn what his triggers are. And he should absolutely stop believing he is harmless when he's angry; none of us are.

Why are you spoon-feeding him? - Surely he can work out for himself what would make women feel uncomfortable - many men seem to manage it. Why is it up to women to tell men how to behave?

This is an odd thread, is the problem him getting angry with you in your relationship and how conflict is managed, or is the problem he is threatening or angry to the average woman on the street that he doesn't know? If it's the former, advice like "don't stand too close to women" is not going to help. But I mean, tbh, things he could do as a man to improve the lot of women would probably involve a lot of personal work, like addressing sexist ideas and being mindful when they come into his head, followed by having conversations about it with other men, which are not easy. Also second the advice to do his own work and not expect women in his life/on MN to do it for him.

So he scares you, he takes umbrage about you not being happy that he scared you - and now it's your responsibility to comfort him for being sad that his choice to scare you did actually scare you - and to tell him as though he isn't capable of comprehending in his child like brain that he scared you that he should behave in a particular way so he can claim that he isn't ever going to scare you again (and can therefore never be accused of scaring you again if/when he inevitably does scare you 'because I've done exactly what you told me to do, you're making it up, I can't be scaring you and if you are scared, it's your fault because you didn't tell me what to do that would stop scaring you')?

He's really turned this round to make it all your fault and problem to solve, hasn't he?

Christ, there's better ones than that out there. Chuck this one back and try again later.

“Christ, there's better ones than that out there. Chuck this one back and try again later.”

He makes being alone a better option.

If he sees a woman being poorly treated, stand up and say something. Campaign at his work to get the gender pay gap addressed. Acknowledge his male privilege and challenge the patriarchy.

Pathetic

Yep.

Hmm...

There may be an issue here.

Sometimes it's ourselves we have to check. If you find yourself explaining to someone why obviously scary/upsetting behaviour is such... it's not a good sign.

And now you're even being the one to research FOR him on how he can be better.

Men know shouting around women is scary. They might forget it in the heat of the moment but when you called him on it he should have straight up apologised without you having to explain something obvious to him first.

That would have me on my guard.

It's good that he claims to understand now but...

Just be careful not to get into a cycle of thinking 'I have to explain why xyz is bad or hurtful. If I find the right words, he will understand'. Because that can go bad really fast. You can end up thinking you are in the wrong if you 'just can't seem to find the right words to make him understand'.

And now here you are on research mode for those right words.

Men are not children. We do not need to inphantalise them. We are also not their therapists. Or their mothers. Or...their own inner conscience.

Don't get into the habit of walking him through basic human empathy. He has it or he doesn't.

You've made him aware of the issue now. It's up to him to do better. If he doesn't, leave.

And certainly be on your guard now moving forwards just incase.

You had some good advice on the last thread, which perhaps you've ignored. There's no magic form of words that will make men understand, OP. Men are aggressive to women because want to be, and because they can, simple as that.