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Feminism: chat

ANDREW TATE INFLUENCE:

3 replies

Smogrocket · 01/10/2023 17:12

Allegedly there is now evidence that the 17 year old boy who tragically stabbed 15 year old Elianne Andam to death with a machete earlier in the week in Croydon may have been a massive Andrew Tate supporter, you can’t say that this had anything to do with it, until we know more.

However it is a hugely worrying thought that Tate’s negative influence on young boys in our community’s may have?

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https://youtu.be/F73NA48gvxg

OP posts:
Findwen · 01/10/2023 17:45

This seems more than a little simplistic, that the killer would not have been a killer if it wasn't for that one mans videos that the killer watched.

It's easy to look for bogeymen that are corrupting the young, Andrew Tate is just the latest in a very looooong line of people that the chattering classes can point to. That's so much dingos kidneys of course, the problem is much bigger and harder to solve than excising one mans work from the world.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 02/10/2023 10:24

I actually went to school with AT and he had a reputation even back then. I've no love for him at all. However I think this is a more complex issue.

On one hand, a content creator isn't responsible for the actions of their followers. Everyone is an independent individual who should take personal responsibility for their own behaviour. I suspect AT would agree with me on that one.

On the other hand, culture is created by creators. A misogynistic culture full of ideals including women with poor boundaries and men who take whatever they want by dint of strength is no new thing and wasn't invented by AT (just look at the Gor books to see this was already a thing back in the 1960s and probably had existed for a long time before that). But the current crop of misogyny content creators are the ones perpetuating this culture and the more of them there are, the more it will seem acceptable to people consuming this culture because they can immerse themselves in it. And AT is at the forefront of that.

That enlargement of cultural artefacts to the point of immersion is the concerning thing that can potentially lead to followers being able to blame content creators for their behaviour. It's exactly how the TRAs have done it. It means any point of view, no matter how cynically held by the originators, can become the prevailing culture by creating a critical mass of content that affirms that outlook. And platforms like YouTube enable this by incentivising people to growth hack their channel by latching onto a subculture and making loads of shareable content that appeals to it.

Taking TRA as an example. "Cut off your penis" is an abhorrent message. Put a pretty face on it, flutter some eyelashes, it's still terrible. Put ten thousand pretty faces on it all saying similar stuff and tell the viewer that they can look at a girl this pretty all the time by becoming her, they'll jump in headfirst and they'll even think it was their own idea. Those people are raging against women (punch a TERF etc) because of the content they have consumed that has shifted their world view into believing this is acceptable. They believe trans people statistics because that's what they're told by the culture around them.

We need to deal with the societal problem of people (especially young men) feeling so desperate and inadequate as they are, and stop parading outlandish solutions in front of them, to stop them following extremists.

Bizarrely, I feel like AT's content is a mixture of both the problem (he's certainly leveraged it to get to where he is) and the solution (some of his advice seems aimed at trying to get young men to see that they are not inadequate and that they are not powerless, unfortunately he's doing it by subsuming women which I obviously disagree with because I'm a woman and I don't want to be subjugated).

What he was doing in Romania and whether he gets prosecuted or not is another matter and adds another layer of complexity because from the outside we only have what the media gives us, the same as with RB. I thought Romania was quite a corrupt country though, with a poor track record on trafficking, so regardless of whether he's committed the crimes or not, I wouldn't be amazed if he's only being prosecuted because the prosecution have paid the authorities more than he can.

It would be interesting to know his current views on TRAs given that they're the ones leading the charge blindly into cancel culture.

But overall it's an extremely complex interrelationship between content and those who consume it and I don't think it's fair to blame someone for something their follower did just because that creator is in that criminal's browser history. I mean if Taylor Swift was in that criminal's browser history no one would blame her and the lyrics to some of her songs are quite dark if purposely taken out of context.

WomenShouldStillWinWomensSports · 02/10/2023 10:27

And that's not even going into the role of intentionally polarising content which is aimed at being divisive because that gets you the most loyal followers. The Democrats and Republicans in the USA are especially good at that and their blueprint is how all these little subcultures are dragging themselves into the mainstream and getting ardent followers. It's a very effective (but ethically vacant) marketing tactic.

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