When I became a mother, I lost my body?

[Sizzlysausage]

Has anyone else read this?

When I became a mother, I lost my body – and realized it never belonged to me | Life and style | The Guardian

I am really fascinated by it - the author describes many deprivations and challenges surrounding motherhood. As just one example:

The motherhood content I located online and the advice I read in parenting books told me that mothers should study and perform model parenting at the cost of all else, and meet their child’s needs with monkish detachment.

It's not that I necessarily disagree with this but I just can't identify with it. Where are all these books and online content? I don't think I read any of it! Of course, there are tensions and compromises but my expectations of motherhood were that (like most things in life) sometimes it would be great, sometimes really shit, often just fairly ordinary and routine (ordinary can be good!), and that is pretty much how it has been. I knew motherhood would change my life, but I don't think I ever felt I had to sacrifice my entire being to motherhood and if I thought about it at all, I think I thought I'd be a far from perfect mother (who is?) but I hoped I wouldn't be terrible because, after all, most of life is muddling through.

I am slightly struggling with articulating this but - as a feminist who is very aware of the motherhood penalty at work for example - I do sometimes wonder about these very doomy depictions. If you have any privilege, including for example an involved partner and healthy kids, is the extent to which motherhood 'devours you,' as this author suggests at least to some extent, a matter of choice?

I am sure I am missing something really important so please do set me right. Is there a circularity here: if you expect so much from motherhood and put so much in, you are bound to be disappointed?

I was struggling too to recall feeling as she describes. The relationships with men - not as much like that for me. I think I've always been a lot less passive or accepting of poor treatment.

I think expectations on mothers can be terribly unrealistic. Especially from schools. Pressure to volunteer, do a plethora of homework. Quadruple that if your child is deemed to have any additional educational need.

But I don't think I've ever taken any of it lying down. Always argued, always fought my corner or just done what I felt was right and justified anyway.

So I couldn't have written that, like that. Not that I think it's necessarily wrong, just not my experience.

And I feel too harsh writing that. I don't blame her. She had been victim from a young age. It's just although I've had hardship in my life I've not really felt like a victim to that extent. As, I said, I've fought back. So my experience was not the same.

I read it and really identified with it. Especially as a single parent without a helpful or supportive partner on the scene. I came from a background of childhood trauma though so I wonder if growing up in a dysfunctional family dynamic predisposes you to more of what she's talking about. I guess also to an extent my dysfunctional childhood dynamic was perpetuated by societal misogyny and male/female relationship imbalance that is still very prevalent and in a way perpetuated the dynamics in my own family (not to take individual responsibility off my family members but to say their behaviours are in part at least also a result of the wider societal issues).

I do also think there is so much pressure on women to be everything - perfect mother, look good, have a successful career, beautiful home - when the time demands allow very little of this to be practical. Choose one or two max! And many of the parenting threads on sites especially on MN, have pileons when someone indicates normal human parenting responses to being overwhelmed (god forbid they should change the bedding slightly less than weekly, leave stains in the toilet or whatever weird judgement metric is trendy). Society is inherently misogynist, even other women, and as a woman navigating that landscape as a mother you suddenly realise how bad it is.

I realise it's not everyone's experience but I really did identify with it a lot.

This is really interesting - thanks for your responses and I’m so sorry that this experience is so widespread. I do understand I think - it’s not that I don’t feel pressures, I guess I’ve channelled a lot of my sense of inadequacy into my career which I feel has not advanced nearly enough.

It's funny, my DH is on extended paternity leave following DS2. Yesterday morning I mentioned that some reactions to DS1's tantrums can make them worse, that it is better to try to maintain a more neutral response. (I realise I am painting myself as the default parent here, and largely, I am, for better or worse). He responded by saying "sorry, must have forgotten my monk's training". When I later read this article, it brought to mind his comments, I think she (like my DH) hit the nail on the head. I can really identify with her characterisation of monkish detachment: it is an aspirational state of mind so common in the world of gentle parenting books and blogs, that sometimes I forget how hard it is to get to that point, and how unrealistic it is as to maintain full-time as a parenting philosophy.

After reading Matrescence by Lucy Jones, I have to say I am more aware of the unreasonable emotional demands placed on mothers. Monkish detachment for me seems like a way of expressing that ideal, perfect attitude we're expected to adopt as mothers lest we warp the healthy emotional development of our children: there is no room for our own emotions, there can only be acknowledgement and validation of their feelings while firmly but kindly maintaining boundaries. And as no one nurtures the mother (by and large), this is an almost impossible balancing act that leads to empathy fatigue and burnout over time.

The rest of the article though didn't ring so true to me. I don't know how much of a parallel there is between rape culture and motherhood per se. It is more like they are both emblematic of a broader culture that disregards the female's needs to allow for unrestricted extraction of her resources.

I honestly don't think I've seen "monkish detachment" recommended on parenting sites etc!?

I liked the piece and can relate to certain parts of it. Like feeling violated when a toddler sticks a hand down your top or generally touched out as a stay at home mum. That feeling of weary powerlessness and relentless giving. I can’t relate to much she writes about men as that’s not my experience but it’s expressed well.

I’m happy to say I have young families living all around me so I can hear nightly screaming from children’s and parents in my neighbours’ houses. I can safely say that nobody is exercising zen like patience in this neighbourhood. It’s a very human reminder that constant gentle parenting is just an ideal that social media get paid handsomely to push.

Well, not literally. It's not characterised as such. Check out Janet Lansbury though, she's a US version of Sarah Ockwell Smith. I largely agree with their parenting tips and techniques, and have found their books etc very helpful, but as I said, to parent that way all the time requires a mental discipline on a par with religious training, and it isn't realistic (for me personally at any rate). Hence why I found the coincidental phrasing from my DH earlier in the day amusing.

@AromanticSpices I’d agree with PP that two of the most prominent SM parenting influencers - Dr Becky and Big Little Feelings - are a little monkish! I enjoy both accounts but they’re so endlessly empathetic to their children and unflustered by wild toddler meltdowns.

Oh ok, I think I get it, more like calm and neutral. I was familiar with Janet Lansbury. I don't follow any parenting ppl on SM so hadn't really realised it was a thing!

wow, reading that is really sad. I don't identify with that at all.( i was a single mum and currently have three children 5 years and under) I can understand certain elements, such as feeling violated when a baby grabs your nipples and wiggles them... but then you assert a boundary and move on.

Also the relationships with men.... feeling like sex is something you just grit your teeth and get on with. That level of detachment from lovers and also children is pretty sad. I don't think it's a healthy place to reside. I also don't think it is healthy for the children - a detatched mother can create attachement issues....

Im going to say something now that may not be popular but I'll say it anyway: I think the writer (from what little this article shows) needs to own responsibility of her decisions, honour her commitments, be stoic, and be grateful.It will positively impact her own life, and her children.

Ultimately, if you allow a man to have sex with you at a party, one who has not shown you any interest, you have invited a situation where you have devalued yourself, and you hold some responsibility for that (she did not describe that situation as assualt, I am going on her word.)

Equally if you have children, then your career is impacted and you need to make sacrifices. You also owe them to do a good job of it.

Standing with your feet in responsibilty is a much better place to reside.

Ownership, enjoyment, gratitude, boundaries.

or

victimhood, misery, resentment and violation.

@BlessedKali it's easy to suggest these things from a position of not relating to it at all or maybe from a background that brings good enough mental health, and relative privilege. But if you're in a mentally difficult place, such as coming from a traumatic relationship or background, coming round to a healthy place whereby you can assert boundaries, enjoyment etc is not always possible from the standpoint of a mother. We may be trying at 110 percent of effort to do our best for our child but still be metaphorically drowning, without support. We may be trying our best to assert our boundaries and enjoying but mental health issues or trauma (as it sounds like the writer has experienced, from some of the experiences she described) can predispose us to floundering. Doesn't mean we won't make it eventually or aren't trying. People aren't trying to be victims here. Most mothers are trying their best even if they have issues. And many are usually always trying to better themselves in some way or another. So it's not as simple as "don't behave like a victim". That sounds to me a bit like telling a depressed person to just "snap out of it" and is lacking in compassion.

I agree. But I think (objectively) my point still stands.

I was struggling recently, not in the same way as the author - I have literally no family, no siblings, no cousins. The only family member I have is my mother, who has BPD and is not supportive whatsoever, alot of the time she goes out of her way to bring me down. I had got into an ongoing thought loop of victimhood - poor me, things wouldnt be this hard if I had family, I wish I could call on someone to help... etc etc. Everytime I hit a moment where things were particularly difficult, I instantly sent to a place of 'things are not fair'. Then fairly recently I started delving into stoicism... it has utterly changed my perspective, so much for the better. As soon as something is hard my instant thought is 'ok i can do this. this is on me'. it has helped me SO MUCH.

I dont think people 'try to be victims' but I think it is an easy place to get to, and an easy place to remain, especially when everyone is saying back to you 'oh poor you'.

I'd say number one starting place is ownership of responsibility... and the rest comes into place from there

@BlessedKali I'm glad you're surviving and even getting closer to thriving! And that the stoicism is also super helpful to you. Congrats and I believe your attitude is brilliant and I know how tough it is supporting a family without a support network.

I think my point is, that 95%+ (or most) mothers are already trying their best and also striving with all their energy to reach the position you mention. Not to mention feeling a bucket load of guilt if they don't always feel happy or are unable to meet the expectations of perfect motherhood. And are likely pursuing self improvement in so many ways already. I follow a regular diet of youtube videos, self help, habit formation, trauma healing research, philosophy etc. I pull myself out of a regular mental ditch, dust myself off and get back on track on a daily basis as well as looking for the positive.

That they haven't necessarily been able to apply something 100% effective yet isn't a mark of failure and nor is discussing the experience, and all its depths, such as within the article. Because there's no "one size fits all" with motherhood.

Reflecting on difficulties can help many mothers make sense of their motherhood experience, in order to process it and move onto a stronger position of understanding and a healthier mental state, as well as acknowledging that it can be really tough for some people.

No doubt if they are anything like me they are not looking for sympathy or "poor you", simply to talk to make sense of their experience, process it, and move on.

For example, in therapy, the therapist will discuss and validate the emotional and physical experience of the client; this is a first step in the healing journey and should not be underestimated in importance. Likewise reflecting on the difficulties of motherhood (as experienced by some mothers) should not be taboo as it serves an important purpose. Please note I am not recommending perpetuating a victim state here. There is an important difference if you get what I mean.

I agree, I think we are on the same page. And if that article had been a dirct post from a mumsnetter looking for support, I wouldn't have responded in such a manner. I am bringing these points to the table as a discussion.

Yes I think there is a balance needed of empathy and compassion, and also pragmatism and empowerment. I think society is in a big trend of honouring victimhood and in many ways disempowering people, so it is interesting for us to find the balance in it all.

Good luck with your journey sister xx

"Yes I think there is a balance needed of empathy and compassion, and also pragmatism and empowerment. I think society is in a big trend of honouring victimhood and in many ways disempowering people, so it is interesting for us to find the balance in it all."

@BlessedKali I think this is very pertinent. What I have realised, though, is some people need to share and talk about their trauma in order to be able to process it. To others (like me) too much talking about it seems to keep you feeling 'stuck there' - reliving it again and again. I process rather quickly and then I'd rather just move on. I don't immediately expect to be able to explain or reconcile absolutely every detail. It might happen as time goes on it might not. I tend to want to live the solution rather than the problem so push forward towards it. For some I move on too quickly and I do have to censor myself at times.

I agree, I felt this article was disturbing and this woman has some SEVERE issues... plus she never mentions the role her HUSBAND plays in all of this... but is focused on stuff like "bad sex she had in high school" (who among us did NOT have bad sex in high school or college? and this also applies to MEN!)... there is something very squicky about seeing your toddler, doing normal toddler things (how can a toddler know about BOUNDARIES?) and correlating this to men who are abusive or just plain bad lovers? it is sexualizing your relationship with your very young child in a deeply troubling way!!!

BTW: she talks about this very sad high school experience, where she hooked up with a "shy football player" she really liked... geez Louise! did she never hear of DATING??? going out for a soda? seeing a movie? there are very few relationships where having sex before you ever had a conversation work out! (I might add, this sounds traumatic for the boy too -- he couldn't even look her in the eyes!) AND HOW DOES THIS RELATE TO CHILDREARING ANYWAYS?

A healthy person would have said "boy, it was a bad idea to hookup for sex before we talked or held hands! I WON'T DO THAT AGAIN!"... not blame their toddler. If you resent being with small children THIS MUCH... dear god, don't take a job at a daycare around small children all day long! go back to work and leave your child with a caretaker! And get some professional help, because they are deeply troubling psychological issues, including being repulsed by sex.

I always have to add in these discussions: there is not one good reason on earth why a woman cannot return to the workforce after recovering from childbirth and HER HUSBAND STAY HOME and caretake the children. Not one. Feminism is 60 years old, and we had these discussions when I was a teen in the 70s and yet women are doing the same d*mn things (staying home with little ones, giving up careers) as women did in the 50s and Betty Friedan wrote about this 1962!!! 1962!!!!

Meandering Brook: there is a simple solution to all those demands... JUST SAY NO! (Thank you, Nancy Reagan!) You do not have to volunteer at school, bake stuff for bake sales... you don't HAVE to do homework (it is not for YOU to do anyways, it is for your KID to do)... if you don't like housecleaning, hire a cleaning service or make your husband do his share. Or leave a mess.

You actually have a tremendous amount of power, and if you abdicate that power... the problem is not that MEN are oppressing you. Not in 2023. You are very likely oppressing YOURSELF.

Nibble monster: I am curious how you had a child on your own without a male partner (or without considerable independence and planning to arrange sperm donation and IVF)? children are created ONLY by one woman and one man, having sex and hopefully in a permanent committed relationship.

It is bad enough when tragedy or loss removes one partner and leaves the other in the lurch... but to create this ON PURPOSE is like jumping out of an airplane with no parachute and then screaming it is the fault of society, the plane, the pilot of the plane, the sky and gravity because you are falling.

I think she needs therapy. Lots of it. She has issues with her body and sex.

Having a baby is a big shock. But relating iits impact to unwanted or regrettable sexual encounters is just odd

The physicality of motherhood is unavoidable. If you carry a child your body will change. But it's not necessarily worse. I went back to normal within 6 weeks. Plus you choose to breastfeed or not.

Young j children are hard work.
BreaIr remember just wanting to lock myself in the bathroom to just have five minutes of time without being touched/ cuddled/ climbed on. But men get this too. It's not a female thing. Likewise playing games etc. but if you have kids you have to accept you need tk interact with them! What should we do instead ? Pack them off?

I agree with her comments re the world of work. But I just find it all very depressing. She's really given in with her own life. Why can't her partner stay at home? Why is she so accepting of her situation?

Things are no doubt worse in the USA. No paid leave etc. but this is by no means a u oversaw experience.

I agree. She's being a martyr. She has the agency to say no to a lot of things if she chooses to. If her academic career is important she should keep it all float - even if it's working just to pay childcare. Her husband can pick up the slack.

YES! and thank you. There is an important bit here I should add: often women today will give up a CAREER or job, because childcare is costly and they resent paying ... telling themselves why should I work all day, just to pay 50% of my salary to a child caretaker or day care provider?

But unless you are a single mom (*and single moms almost never stay home, unless very wealthy)... that child care is contributed equally (by percentage of income) to BOTH YOU and your husband. If you pay 100% out of your own funds, you are doing this WRONG.

Let's say you earn $50K and he earns $75K... child care is $25K a year, your share is $10K and his is $15K (as he earns 50% more than you do). This is reasonable and fair.

Another way to divide fairly: each of you takes 2 years off to stay home with a child, while the other works. Otherwise you are saying YOUR CAREER (as a woman) is EXPENDABLE... his is not? WTF? in 2023? You BOTH need a career, income in the future, retirement savings... the marriage might not last! even if it does, you will need both incomes!

If the CHOICE to have the woman always stay home or give up HER career... is because "he earns more and we want a posh(er) lifestyle"... then whose fault is that? you (or he or both of you) are CHOOSING short term materialism over fairness or long term happiness (as most women will find taking a huge chunk of your career away has severe long term consequences).

On top of that, the author of the original piece is clearly MISERABLE at home, and children pick up on that... it will have long term repercussions, come out in bitter exchanges later on that "I (your mom) gave up everything for you!"... no child wants to hear that. It is just a generally rotten way to live.

Even our moms and grandmothers read Betty Friedan's landmark book "The Feminine Mystique"... how on earth can we be here, the heirs to such hard work and immense gains in women's rights... and still be whinging about staying home, giving up careers, nurturing RESENTMENT... crying about how unfair it all is? HOW?

I remember really enjoying yoga when my kids were little as it was a time just to 'be' with my body and without things being demanded of me, but I never felt that devoured by it. But then we had parents nearby, reasonable income, nights off and weekends away, pretty 'easy' kids, so it could have been a lot more demanding

Exactly and thank you for these sensible words. A woman who is having flashbacks to unwanted sexual encounters, while she breastfeeds her infant... has serious PTSD and psychological issues. I am not diminishing this, only that she is blaming "motherhood", the "patriarchy", high school boyfriends, a lack of parental leave (though she QUIT by her own choice) and so on, for those psychological issues.

You cannot breast feed (or for that matter, bottle feed!) without having your baby touch your breasts, your face, YOU IN GENERAL... people who recoil from human contact, who have sexual issues (who lays there during sex, staring at the wall and forcing themselves to play-act "porn sex"?)... has deep-seated problems, and no amount of paid leave or free day care will solve them for her.

Generally I have found when I read more about these types of authors... they lead and have always led lives of privilege, but it make it sound like they are the put-upon desperate poor, who are "stuck" in some way. ALL SHE HAS TO DO is hire a babysitter for a few afternoons a week! And quit working day care, she clearly doesn't like being around children (that's OK, not everyone is cut out to work at day care). This could also be prolonged postpartum depression, which is very serious.

Yes, taking care of infants... breastfeeding... is a sacrifice and hard work. That's why you have to be mature & grounded & psychologically sound before even attempting it! (I also wondered: where are her mom, MIL, girlfriends, siblings etc. to help her out or at least give her emotional support?)

Erm i do say 'No!' And always have frequently. My comment was really in observation. And when I have let myself be persuaded to volunteer in school for the same of a lack of adequate additional needs provision it gave me a tactical advantage. I used the time to closely observe what was really going on which allowed me to advocate more effectively for my DC (who has done really well and is now at university looking forward to a career in research.) I did make a considerable amount of sacrifices (and did give up work) but I don't regret any of those sacrifices. I was the most qualified with my own particular background (I studied English and Education including linguistics, language acquisition and child development).