How to deal with misogynistic father?

[TERFinTheHouse]

In many ways, my father was/is a great dad. He attended every parents evening/ sports day/ girls trip. He paid my way through university. He did the long distance road trips when I moved away for uni. You get the idea...

However, many of his attitudes towards women are misogynistic. Often the first thing he will comment upon when he sees a woman in a film or something is her appearance. He used terms like "bird", "battle axe", and "dog" when referring to women. In regards to the TERF wars, he thinks that this is all happening because the women involved are looking for a cat fight, you get the idea I'm sure.

I have tried speaking to him about his views, but he just laughs it off and tells me not to be so sensitive.

What can I realistically do to change his attitude?

You can't change his attitude, unless he's open to changing.

He's being very rude telling you not to be sensitive!

You can’t change him. That’s who he is. You can tell him his language is disgusting and you won’t listen to it.

but he just laughs it off and tells me not to be so sensitive

'Fine, thanks for telling me that you don't care about upsetting me and that you don't take my concerns seriously. Good to know.'

The 'don't be so sensitive' is shorthand for 'actually I haven't thought about this at all, I don't know why I say what I do and or hold the opinions I do and I'm not mature enough to debate it with you or listen to what you have to say about it, so please shut up, woman.'

Mine is the same, can come out with usual chauvinistic, sexist male comments.

I turn it around-if a woman (sports, travel etc) is on the tv or doing something near us which could be seen a non typical for females I just play up to it. ‘What a disgrace- she should be be home making someone a cup of tea or getting dinner ready, shouldn’t she dad?’. It usually gets the message across with a ‘no, I am all for women doing this’ reply. Keep going ‘Yes dad but once she has got dinner on the table right dad?’

You can’t.

I was always better than my brothers and my husband at cars, household appliances, electrics, and plumbing.

He is now mid-eighties and will still ask my husband for help with these things. My husband patiently then turns to me and asks me the answer.

irs only now I’m in my 50s that I have begun to understand the damage this has done, and my constant fight to try and prove that a mere woman could do any of these things. I wish I had learned to let go of the anger earlier, though recognise it has driven me to learn some great skills.

There is no magic button you can press for men that think this way.

His comments about women are also starting to increase as he ages. Maybe next time he says something I’ll make a comment about increasing inappropriate comments being a sign o dementia?

My mother is like this too.
After years of trying I have given up.

My French mother was like this. Despite my growing up lesbian, she thought a woman's role was to be charming and desired by men and admired by other women, so she treated all my male friends as my potential suitors, even the ones that were already in gay couples. When she wasn't making rather overt marriage insinuations, she was busy flirting with them herself!

She never really understood why any woman would want to work professionally and always looked down on them. For her it was all about making a good marriage so that you didn't have to work, apart from dans la maison, preferably in the kitchen, as she did like to cook when she wasn't drinking too much and being 'charming' with everyone who came her way. Working women were unfortunates who hadn't been able to do that.

Leslie Caron, that's who she'd idolised as a young girl and who I think she'd based herself upon... Even after years of living here, she was careful not to let her French accent slip too much so that she sounded British.

I remember when I started my first job, her first question was, 'Your boss, is he married / attractive?' She wasn't at all interested in what I was doing or where I was working.

We endured years and years of misunderstandings and never agreeing on anything. I don't think you can change another's mindset as I often think it is intricately linked with their own personality and experiences. Then again, I do remember her telling me in French which is what her own mother had instilled in her that 'a woman is nothing unless a man loves her.' I think she took that to mean that you are nothing without love - mass love in her case, because she was quite the narcissist.

Even when she was in the hospital dying, she spent all her time asking for and applying her lipstick because she didn't want the doctor to see her without it.
She was quite rude to the woman doctor, again the same old attitude that the 'poor woman was only doing this because she hadn't been able to find a good husband.' That was her attitude!

You can’t but you can be a bit pass ag and laugh about old fashioned attitudes towards women and make your dad think about it that way.

E.g. say something like, men make me cringe- they go around referring to women as dogs or battle axes because they still haven’t woken up to the fact that misogyny hurts them just as much as it does women.

Or tell him about Greta’s amazing small dick energy retort.

Men who haven’t done patriarchy for dummies yet are starting to become increasingly a parody of themselves.

he's unlikely to change. So carry on challenging him on these things and tell him you're not sensitive but he's stuck in old ways that aren't acceptable. And then just carry on, it's all you can do.

I'd be inclined to mirror him so he sees how pathetic the behaviour is. When a man comes on TV sneer at him for being an old codger, judge him by his looks: Wow, you'd think he could smarten up a bit/who's he kidding with that dasd bod beergut?/ buff but thick/ what a square/nerd/loser etc. When a misogynistic man is on TV, say. "Ooh, who's a bit scared of women? Pathetic, isn't he?" etc

If he reacts just say: dad I was doing it to show you how off-putting it is to have that sort of commentary from the opposite sex. I'll stop if you will.

I must admit I did stuff like this to my dad and it did help him see what he was doing.

My late dad could be a bit like this.

I warned him a few times that his comments offended me and would get up and leave when he continued. That would be leaving his house, a restaurant, or asking him to go home if he was in our house. I didn't want my DC to grow up hearing it apart from anything else.

He eventually got the message and shut up.

you can't change him, the battle is in trying to figure out how he's (already) changed you and to gently but persistently work at undoing it.

It's not always easy but it is possible, therapy if you can afford it helps.

I agree with others- you can't expect him to change.
We have little control over what others say and think.

Friend made a comment a couple of days ago about Carol Vorderman and Charlotte Proudman being 'bitter old hags who don't have a man in their lives.' Now I can think of a lot of reasons to disagree with those two women and say so without bringing unpleasant personal comments into it, and I said so.

She was being 'sarcastic,' apparently. It seems to have passed her by that she made that comment to someone in her late 60s who's happily single and who might be inclined to take that personally.

You can’t control their views, but you do control your response.

it’s liberating to let go of being polite - you know that uncomfortable laugh thing we do? I stopped doing that, and instead just look at them blankly, or say “that’s not funny at all”.

Today I told my DH’s cousin he needed to get some new analogies when he used a misogynistic one in front of me and my kid. He didn’t respond, but at least my girl is seeing how to challenge up to this shit.

You could try the ‘so, dad, if you heard another man calling your wife or daughter names like that, how would you feel? Well, the women you are insulting are someone’s daughter or partner.’ As to sensitive - ‘no, you are being very inappropriate.’ And repeat.

The “terf” thing—I’m actually surprised he thinks it’s ok for men to be in women’s spaces? Ask him if he would date a woman with a penis— if he says “no,” then he’s a “terf” too.

My FIL makes misogynist comments. MIL smiles uncomfortably and tells him he shouldn’t talk that way. Obviously by laughing she negates her point. I say icily, “that isn’t funny.” But I just don’t have a sense of humor. (Luckily, DH says, “Dad, we have three little girls. You can’t say things like that.”) I’m glad DH answers him this way but annoyed that it takes a man to confront him.