Tired of fighting other feminists

[MeMe36]

I know this forum is primarily UK based. I was a member here first, then joined a radfem one that’s more USA oriented bc that’s where I am, but one of the power hungry admins kept removing every other thing I’d write for being “uncivil” or in the “wrong” (confusing) subsection to the point where it’s not even worth it anymore and I deleted my account.

You can look at my old posts on here, there’s nothing uncivil about me.

As I recall, this forum was very chill and non-aggressive. But it’s my experience that so many women’s spaces are anything but, when I thought we were supposed to be supporting each other.

I don’t get it, why do some of us want to spend so much time trying to attack other women? It’s no wonder we can’t get ahead when we have to fight men, and women, and now they/thems, too!

It’s not even reasonable things, but the most mundane, innocent things that end up being a powder keg. A lot of the time it’s pulled out of thin air, bc someone is just looking for a problem. And it makes us look bad to any man observing it.

I got screamed at once for not being inclusive by using the word “woman” in a group called Women Against Nonessential Grooming(!), bc I said something like, the women here are so brave and I wish I had the self confidence to do the same. It was a group of women and trans women, so I was in the wrong for not calling them men? You just can’t win with these people!

I’ve been screamed at for “White feminism” when I’m not even white!

I was told I was appropriating black women’s culture, bc I mentioned I have curly hair in a CURLY GIRL group. Middle Eastern people also have curly hair! So does every race!

I’ve been called a conservative and told to go kill myself when I’m a liberal, bc I said something about bipartisanship hurting everyone.

I’ve been screamed at for linking to laws my post is about, that someone was dead set on denying to the death for some reason, like it was their new mission in life to come after me to concede on their technicalities.

These things aren’t even big button topics like abortion that warrant such bickering and attacking.

Why isn’t it rare for us to treat each other this way??

i don’t understand trying to start fights with random people online at the best of times, but women against women is even worse.

Just why? Our rights are regressing, and some of us are still doing this kind of thing. 🤯

That place sounds toxic. Fair chance there were a few bad actors in there.

All people have their own ideas and boundaries and it's good not to live in an echo chamber but it can go to far the other way too.

Welcome back.

I don’t get it, why do some of us want to spend so much time trying to attack other women?

Part of it is instinctive. We are competitive to secure the best advantages for our offspring. It's so ingrained we remain competitive regardless of whether the offspring will benefit or not.

It's also survival in a patriarchy. We fight each other for men, and for their approval. Men encourage us to fight each other because we're easier to control if we are busy elsewhere and not keeping an eye on what they're doing to metaphorically shaft us.

And, some women and just bitches! No, not quite that. But so many have internalised ideas that are beneficial only to men (TWAW, for example) and so many want to be Head Girl and don't want any competition (especially from that wicked, glamorous, sensible Posey Parker) that we lose the benefit of their energy and intellect which is misdirected away from what is really good for women.

Well spotted. You are of course right. Make 'Woman' the bottom line - if we are genuinely united, we will win. Whatever it is. Our existence, our freedom, our wellbeing. Togetherness would make us invincible. We give birth. We have to win. We will win.

last paragraph, are not and. I checked twice and didn't see that.

Anti-feminists infiltrate women's groups a lot. I personally think most over-the-top nasty ones are infiltrators.

A good portion of men are terrified at the thought of women speaking freely amongst themselves without men to lead where the conversations go.

One reason why some men become obsessed with ruining women's groups is that they know bad male behavior will be exposed.

Another major reason is that many men don't like the power, independence and healthy self esteem women get when they speak their minds and are encouraged rather than degraded for it.

Ime all protest/activist groups, and in fact all groups made up of volunteers, attract more than their share of obsessives, people with poor communication skills and misfits. You can view this sympathetically as inevitable that people a bit outside the mainstream are more likely to be alert to social issues because they’re more likely to be affected by them, or you can speculate that because these people struggle socially, they’ve got more time on their hands and are more likely to be drawn to groups who, let’s face it, often can’t afford to be picky about who joins (and, tbf, are genuinely trying to include everyone who cares). It’s frustrating when you’re giving up your own time to try and get stuff done. And it can be really off putting- it’s very easy to decide that you spend too much time dealing with crap when you’re being paid to want to do it for free as well. I sympathise. I don’t have a solution because I’m afraid I always end up walking away- life is too short.

Some of these groups are like magnets to people with anger issues (often a manifestation of underlying depression) and that's why they end up turning on each other. At other times it can be about people wanting their own voices heard at the expense of drowning out others.

I got screamed at once for not being inclusive by using the word “woman” in a group called Women Against Nonessential Grooming(!), bc I said something like, the women here are so brave and I wish I had the self confidence to do the same. It was a group of women and trans women, so I was in the wrong for not calling them men? You just can’t win with these people!

No, you can't. Because it's a power trip.

That’s a very good point, and I even think that if would be bad if it was an echo chamber, bc we never would learn anything new, understand or appreciate other people’s experiences.

That seemed kind of the problem, when anyone deviated from the herd, it seems like they were turned against, sometimes viciously.

But it’s good to be back, thank you! This is a MUCH more tolerant place.

I wish people like that would stay out of these kinds of groups. They just bring people down and divide them.

It’s like how libfems keep accusing people of white feminism. I pretty much only hear this accusation from white, middle class women! Sometimes to women of color.

IF there’s legitimate issues, sure, call it out, but a lot of the time, they seem to just weaponize social justice issues for themselves.

I'm not sure if the issue here is individual women tearing strips off each other, as usually happens on here when some women take other women's lifestyle choices as a personal affront. Or, whether you're referring to a more general feminism: the different 'schools', waves or movements under the feminist umbrella which are taking umbrage with the views of a different school. Or, whether, it's a bit of both.

If the latter, it's nothing new. Feminists have by no means always agreed with each other and this particular 'ism' has occupied amongst the most frenetic, bitterly contested political ground of the last century. And these days, a constant erosion of women's feminism is cajoling us to accept any form of egalitarianism - more often the ones that don't centre women at all - as 'feminist'. The old first wave woman citizen vs. 'wages for housework' brand of feminism is each still beating ten bells out of the other, under the guise of SAHM vs. WOHM. It doesn't seem to either of these sides that the thing to be challenged is the patriarchal structure which undermines both in the first place.

An issue pertinent to today is that a particularly aggressive strand of male supremacy is masquerading as liberalism, the 'third wave' has hitched itself onto that, and women are being lambasted if they refuse to kow tow to it. Witness the appalling backlash against the fourth wave and #MeToo.

I see no great change. Over the past decade things have become more vociferous again. It's feeling like a bad time to be a woman (again) - I'm witnessing the worst assault on women's rights I've seen in my lifetime - but recall a century ago women were chaining themselves to railings, being carted off in irons and force fed. Plus sa change.

I had to pick up on one small specific point:

And it makes us look bad to any man observing it.

As a feminist, even if this were true, it would be the very last thing I cared about.