Pregnant NYC Bike "Karen" was the victim, not the agressor

[littleripper]

Trial by social media for a pregnant woman who cried when a man tried to steal the bike she's hired is tried and hung by social media, and put on unpaid leave from her job, with no evidence or investigation:

https://www.bicycling.com/news/a43920956/pregnant-nyc-karen-on-video-trying-to-steal-a-black-mans-citi-bike/

https://news.yahoo.com/receipts-show-hospital-worker-accused-170920174.html

It turns out she had paid for the bike and he has no evidence he paid. But he is not the subject of the internets wrath, no consequences for him.

I hope she takes her employers to court and wins a massive settlement. Surreal levels of misogyny and hatred directed to a pregnant healthcare worker who did nothing wrong at all.

Will this ever be recognised for what it is?

[skullbabe]

Information from Citibike

"after ending your rental, you may rent another bicycle, but only after a 2 minute waiting period."

which would explain why the boys were waiting by their bikes.

Anyway - the adult woman in this situation escalated this situation unneccesarily and the manner in which she escalated is what people are objecting to.

[QuintanaRoo]

@skullbabe

I based that initially on their voices and speech in the video - they sound young. Then by the journalists who have spoken to the boy in the video (with his sister and his mother) referring to him as a boy.

Thank you.

[QuintanaRoo]

@skullbabe

Information from Citibike

"after ending your rental, you may rent another bicycle, but only after a 2 minute waiting period."

which would explain why the boys were waiting by their bikes.

Anyway - the adult woman in this situation escalated this situation unneccesarily and the manner in which she escalated is what people are objecting to.

That ties in with what I read, that they’d biked there and docked them…..then decided to go somewhere else. Maybe he was waiting for his two minute wait window, expecting to rebook it again but she got there first. 🤷‍♀️. He was annoyed as he felt he was “bagging” it. I don’t know, just guessing. Neither of them come out well but I have more sympathy with him if he is a teen as we all know they don’t make the best decisions at times.

They both needed to chill out and talk calmly to each other. Someone said it was an ebike and the others there were normal bikes which might explain why they both wanted it. But I also see if she’s booked it she will be right in thinking someone can’t then claim to have been “bagging” it. If it was on her app it was her bike.

[nothingcomestonothing]

@Lndnmummy

i won't call them boys

No? This is another huge problem. The dehumanisation and adultification of black boys and girls. It plays into the stereotype of the strong, violent aggressor.

Can you all really not see what the problem is here? I don't understand how you can't.

Can you really not see why someone might choose not to call a black American man, a boy? There is some context further up the thread if you can't.

I'm not trying to adultify them, they are young of course but old enough to be able to hire the bikes so I guess the minimum age would be 16 if not 18? Seems you can't do right for doing wrong - it's simultaneously insulting to call this person a boy, but it's insulting to not call him a boy.

[nothingcomestonothing]

Anyway - the adult woman in this situation escalated this situation unneccesarily and the manner in which she escalated is what people are objecting to.

I agree she did escalate it, no one is coming out of this covered in glory. But it isn't the manner she escalated it which brought this case to international attention, it's the assumptions made by people who weren't there and didn't know the truth of what happened. Who assumed, and publicised their assumptions, that she was a thief, a racist and a liar. Leading to her being villified online and suspended from her job. Those consequences didn't arise because she behaved less than ideally in a heated situation, but because she was perceived as a racist and a liar. Neither of which is evidenced, just assumed.

[inamarina]

@QuintanaRoo

That ties in with what I read, that they’d biked there and docked them…..then decided to go somewhere else. Maybe he was waiting for his two minute wait window, expecting to rebook it again but she got there first. 🤷‍♀️. He was annoyed as he felt he was “bagging” it. I don’t know, just guessing. Neither of them come out well but I have more sympathy with him if he is a teen as we all know they don’t make the best decisions at times.

They both needed to chill out and talk calmly to each other. Someone said it was an ebike and the others there were normal bikes which might explain why they both wanted it. But I also see if she’s booked it she will be right in thinking someone can’t then claim to have been “bagging” it. If it was on her app it was her bike.

If it was indeed the only e-bike and the woman had really reserved it after the guy’s initial journey had finished, I also wonder if she wanted that bike specifically because she was pregnant (and tired)?
I agree that both sides could have tried to sort it out in a calmer manner.

[skullbabe]

@nothingcomestonothing

Anyway - the adult woman in this situation escalated this situation unneccesarily and the manner in which she escalated is what people are objecting to.

I agree she did escalate it, no one is coming out of this covered in glory. But it isn't the manner she escalated it which brought this case to international attention, it's the assumptions made by people who weren't there and didn't know the truth of what happened. Who assumed, and publicised their assumptions, that she was a thief, a racist and a liar. Leading to her being villified online and suspended from her job. Those consequences didn't arise because she behaved less than ideally in a heated situation, but because she was perceived as a racist and a liar. Neither of which is evidenced, just assumed.

What Sara did was racist though. Sara was upset that she was not being allowed to take the bike and there was an argument about it. Sara then pretended that she being assaulted and also pretended to cry. This is manipulative behaviour. As an adult she will be believed over children and it is racist because of the racial dynamics at play - white people and especially white women will always be believed over black counterparts until anti racism is an embedded practice. Many black people have told you this in this thread and you only have to look at the disparity in outcomes with interactions with the law to see this. Sara has also been economical with the truth - she has not lied but she did not provide the entire context. Many women on this thread identify with Sara - however that empathy cannot extend to ignoring the very real harm of the implications of how she behaved that evening over a bike.

[Walrussy]

@skullbabe

If this were true (the boys docked the bike while she was on it after she paid for it) - how did it get back out of the dock for the video and under who's account is it active? Because in the video she has an active bike. If she left that bike to hire another one she wouldn't have been able to because she could not have 2 bikes under one account. This means that the bike at the time of the video was not linked to her account.

Just quickly because I've a lot to do, my understanding is video starts at 7.24. At this point, bike is Sarah's. Changeover apparently happens while on video. The guy's receipt shows that he starts renting at 7.25 which is the same time as when Sarah gets docked. Guy then goes nowhere for 6 minutes (according to map on his receipt) and redocks the bike at the same station at 7.31.

[nothingcomestonothing]

@skullbabe

What Sara did was racist though. Sara was upset that she was not being allowed to take the bike and there was an argument about it. Sara then pretended that she being assaulted and also pretended to cry. This is manipulative behaviour. As an adult she will be believed over children and it is racist because of the racial dynamics at play - white people and especially white women will always be believed over black counterparts until anti racism is an embedded practice. Many black people have told you this in this thread and you only have to look at the disparity in outcomes with interactions with the law to see this. Sara has also been economical with the truth - she has not lied but she did not provide the entire context. Many women on this thread identify with Sara - however that empathy cannot extend to ignoring the very real harm of the implications of how she behaved that evening over a bike.

She got into an argument with some people. That's not racist. We don't know she pretended to cry, we don't know she wasn't in genuine fear or distress, that's interpretation. You might not believe her but that doesn't prove she lied.

That 'white people and especially white women will always be believed over black counterparts' isn't in her hands, is she only allowed to argue with white people she disagrees with, just in case? Plus in this case that didn't happen - the white woman was assumed to be in the wrong. This opposite of what you're saying happens is what happened.

I am not denying that racism exists, I'm not saying that she behaved well, I'm just saying that in this instance, the woman was assumed to be a racist, and that assumption was made and publicised with no evidence for it. You might think she's a racist, she might even be a racist for all any of us know, but from the evidence available you cannot show that. Behaving poorly under stress doesn't automatically mean you're a racist.

[ChardonnaysBeastlyCat]

@skullbabe

What Sara did was racist though. Sara was upset that she was not being allowed to take the bike and there was an argument about it. Sara then pretended that she being assaulted and also pretended to cry. This is manipulative behaviour. As an adult she will be believed over children and it is racist because of the racial dynamics at play - white people and especially white women will always be believed over black counterparts until anti racism is an embedded practice. Many black people have told you this in this thread and you only have to look at the disparity in outcomes with interactions with the law to see this. Sara has also been economical with the truth - she has not lied but she did not provide the entire context. Many women on this thread identify with Sara - however that empathy cannot extend to ignoring the very real harm of the implications of how she behaved that evening over a bike.

She was assaulted. Unwanted contact with intent to intimidate is assault.

[elgreco]

Women are more likely to cry when stressed unlike men who are more likely to cry when emotional (very happy or sad).

Useless fact.

[CwmYoy]

@skullbabe

 Sara then pretended that she being assaulted and also pretended to cry. This is manipulative behaviour.

Do stop saying she pretended to cry. And she was assaulted. Lies don't make for useful debate.

[Socrateswasrightaboutvoting]

"...while all women might struggle under the weight of the patriarchy, Black women must also overcome the burden of white supremacy and racialized class oppression in a way white women do not" ― Masterclass


a lot of bullying and hatred emerges in any movement which can't be questioned on its rightness

Posters on this thread trying to twist, and deny the alternative perspectives of those, with the same gender, but lived experiences, determined by the colour or their skin/ethnicity.

Beware of any movement that requires you to think in lockstep.
White women and women from different ethnic communities have the same problem, namely the Patriarchy.

@LangClegsInSpace

We are over there talking with black people and allies who meet us half way in our discussions.
We are over there talking because we don't play nicely with people who think they can summon us over like chattel. This is not 1750.

“Women of today are still being called upon to stretch across the gap of male ignorance and to educate men as to our existence and our needs. This is an old and primary tool of all oppressors to keep the oppressed occupied with the master’s concerns. Now we hear that it is the task of women of colour to educate white women – in the face of tremendous resistance – as to our existence, our differences, our relative roles in our joint survival. This is a diversion of energies and a tragic repetition of racist patriarchal thought.”
― Reni Eddo-Lodge, Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race

[skullbabe]

@nothingcomestonothing

She got into an argument with some people. That's not racist. We don't know she pretended to cry, we don't know she wasn't in genuine fear or distress, that's interpretation. You might not believe her but that doesn't prove she lied.

That 'white people and especially white women will always be believed over black counterparts' isn't in her hands, is she only allowed to argue with white people she disagrees with, just in case? Plus in this case that didn't happen - the white woman was assumed to be in the wrong. This opposite of what you're saying happens is what happened.

I am not denying that racism exists, I'm not saying that she behaved well, I'm just saying that in this instance, the woman was assumed to be a racist, and that assumption was made and publicised with no evidence for it. You might think she's a racist, she might even be a racist for all any of us know, but from the evidence available you cannot show that. Behaving poorly under stress doesn't automatically mean you're a racist.

Again - the argument was not the racist but the behaviour that has resulted in Sara being called racist is the crying. I have repeated this several times and you don’t seem to understand this. She wasn’t actually crying - you see she stopped quickly and had no tears. That action is what has caused real harm to black people in the past.

[skullbabe]

@CwmYoy

@skullbabe

 Sara then pretended that she being assaulted and also pretended to cry. This is manipulative behaviour.

Do stop saying she pretended to cry. And she was assaulted. Lies don't make for useful debate.

Neither Sara nor the boys have said that she was assaulted- please stop lying on children to make your point. She was not crying - no tears came out of her eyes at any point and she stopped rather quickly when her colleague came to assist.

[skullbabe]

@elgreco

Women are more likely to cry when stressed unlike men who are more likely to cry when emotional (very happy or sad).

Useless fact.

Of course I have cried when I have been stressed but I have not cried in the course of an argument, recovered rapidly without shedding tears and gone about my business as if nothing had happened. Which is what Sara did. Which was wrong.

[nothingcomestonothing]

@skullbabe

Again - the argument was not the racist but the behaviour that has resulted in Sara being called racist is the crying. I have repeated this several times and you don’t seem to understand this. She wasn’t actually crying - you see she stopped quickly and had no tears. That action is what has caused real harm to black people in the past.

Crying, or even pretending to cry, is racist? No, that I don't understand. Other people crying or pretending to cry has resulted in harm in the past, okay I can believe that. But you can't therefore assume that that was what intended in this instance, if it even was intended or calculated as you seem to think. Driving cars has caused accidents in the past, that doesn't mean me driving a car is me intending to cause an accident.

[skullbabe]

Many of you are very defensive because you identify with Sara - you don’t have to believe the black women on this thread when they tell you that what she did was racist but you need to question why a majority of black people think what she did was. I have been very charitable to Sara throughout - I understand what happened - look both she and the boy were being petty. Her pettiness had particular racist connotations. We won’t agree on this point here today but I would suggest going to spaces where black people are speaking to each other and listen to them speaking about this - really listen. You might begin to understand that it is not about the argument it is about what she did. Take care.

[nothingcomestonothing]

@Socrateswasrightaboutvoting

"...while all women might struggle under the weight of the patriarchy, Black women must also overcome the burden of white supremacy and racialized class oppression in a way white women do not" ― Masterclass


a lot of bullying and hatred emerges in any movement which can't be questioned on its rightness

Posters on this thread trying to twist, and deny the alternative perspectives of those, with the same gender, but lived experiences, determined by the colour or their skin/ethnicity.

Beware of any movement that requires you to think in lockstep.
White women and women from different ethnic communities have the same problem, namely the Patriarchy.

@LangClegsInSpace

We are over there talking with black people and allies who meet us half way in our discussions.
We are over there talking because we don't play nicely with people who think they can summon us over like chattel. This is not 1750.

“Women of today are still being called upon to stretch across the gap of male ignorance and to educate men as to our existence and our needs. This is an old and primary tool of all oppressors to keep the oppressed occupied with the master’s concerns. Now we hear that it is the task of women of colour to educate white women – in the face of tremendous resistance – as to our existence, our differences, our relative roles in our joint survival. This is a diversion of energies and a tragic repetition of racist patriarchal thought.”
― Reni Eddo-Lodge, Why I’m No Longer Talking to White People About Race

Any chance of you actually engaging in a discussion about the subject of this thread, or are you only here to lecture us?

[nothingcomestonothing]

@skullbabe

Many of you are very defensive because you identify with Sara - you don’t have to believe the black women on this thread when they tell you that what she did was racist but you need to question why a majority of black people think what she did was. I have been very charitable to Sara throughout - I understand what happened - look both she and the boy were being petty. Her pettiness had particular racist connotations. We won’t agree on this point here today but I would suggest going to spaces where black people are speaking to each other and listen to them speaking about this - really listen. You might begin to understand that it is not about the argument it is about what she did. Take care.

It's not about identifying with her, for me anyway. For me it's the assumptions about her motives, which we don't know.

One person might look at the video and see it's a white woman deliberately trying to get young black men in trouble. Another might see a woman on her own outnumbered by men physically stronger than her, scared and intimidated. We all view things through our own lens. But with no evidence, it is assumption, we don't know and can't prove her intent.

[inamarina]

@nothingcomestonothing

It's not about identifying with her, for me anyway. For me it's the assumptions about her motives, which we don't know.

One person might look at the video and see it's a white woman deliberately trying to get young black men in trouble. Another might see a woman on her own outnumbered by men physically stronger than her, scared and intimidated. We all view things through our own lens. But with no evidence, it is assumption, we don't know and can't prove her intent.

This. When I watch this video I see a woman reacting to a situation in a way I probably wouldn’t.
I can’t tell if she’s genuinely distressed or if she’s exaggerating or being manipulative.
Maybe she is trying to weaponize her tears, I don’t know.
At the same time I do see her surrounded by men - young men, maybe even boys, but I don’t see them as „children“.
Someone else mentioned that in order to reserve a City bike you have to be at least 16.
If this woman was surrounded by a group of white boys of 16+ and a similar height as the boys in the video, I wouldn’t be referring to them as „children“ either.
From my perspective I assume there must have been some sort of misunderstanding and neither side reacted in the best way.
Other people watch the video and see something different, based on their experience.

[NotTerfNorCis]

Have to say I've never seen an adult cry to manipulate people. Does it really happen? There's such stigma attached to crying.

[skullbabe]

Yes it does happen

[skullbabe]

@nothingcomestonothing

It's not about identifying with her, for me anyway. For me it's the assumptions about her motives, which we don't know.

One person might look at the video and see it's a white woman deliberately trying to get young black men in trouble. Another might see a woman on her own outnumbered by men physically stronger than her, scared and intimidated. We all view things through our own lens. But with no evidence, it is assumption, we don't know and can't prove her intent.

Ok now ask yourself why overwhelmingly black women who share your experiences of patriarchy see this situation different to you. The evidence is there to see - you just don’t accept it as such.

[Lndnmummy]

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat

She was assaulted. Unwanted contact with intent to intimidate is assault.

She.was.not.assulted