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Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

I should be able to do this.

20 replies

Brewskipa · 06/05/2023 09:02

I was out last night with a young person who is 14 years old. I don’t want to go into details of the relationship incase it’s outing but she is not a relative and someone I have a safeguarding responsibility to.

We we’re having a lovely evening and we’re walking back to my car at about 10pm when a man was walking in the opposite direction and as he approached us he asked her if she wanted to touch his balls. This happened so quickly that he had practically walked past by the time he finished his question so I tuned round and shouted at him that she was 14 and called him a creep.

I have informed her legal guardian who is as angry about it as I am. I’ve also told the organisation that facilitates our relationship. She is technically a vulnerable child. She looks like an adult and she is beautiful so has always attracted attention but never before with me in a way that could be described as sexual harassment.

Ive told the adults involved that I’m going to ensure that for the foreseeable I’m going to stick to spending time with her in the day to support her to feel safer. But this wipes out our favourite shared activity that we were doing last night.

I’m just so angry. I should be able to take her out and have fun without her, a CHILD, being sexually harassed. I hate that she has a lifetime of this ahead of her.

OP posts:
dementedpixie · 06/05/2023 09:45

Why on earth would you stop doing the activity?
That's letting the creep win as its you and her changing your behaviour

Original poster
Brewskipa · 06/05/2023 09:50

@dementedpixie because there are other activities we can do that we also enjoy that can be done in the day, and because making a child feel comfortable is more important to me than who “wins”.

OP posts:
Raquelos · 06/05/2023 10:07

Please don't curtail your perfectly reasonable activities because of the bad behaviour of a man like this. The tragedy is that these idiots are everywhere all the time. You are just as likely to experience that kind of interaction at any other time of the day. If you stay in to avoid them, you will never go out.

Better to use the opportunity to talk to the 14-year-old about how contemptible this kind of behaviour is and how they should have zero tolerance for it and other questionable behaviours in any aspect of their life, including their own friendship groups. Help her understand that these people are scumbags and that she is not responsible for their shitty actions.

It is so frustrating that we need to help our girls navigate this kind of shit, but we do because there is no way of avoiding it completely.

VoodooQualities · 12/05/2023 07:57

because there are other activities we can do that we also enjoy that can be done in the day, and because making a child feel comfortable is more important to me than who “wins”.

How does she feel about it? Does how you feel about it matter that much really?

CurlewKate · 12/05/2023 08:21

It's a little naive not to realise this is something that happens to young women all the time. It's absolutely crap. You would be better helping her to develop strategies to cope. Because it will happen until men change.

Maddy70 · 12/05/2023 08:32

Why are you stopping that activity. That's bonkers. You get creeps sadly everywhere

RoseslnTheHospital · 12/05/2023 11:01

Don't stop the activity. Men have said shit like that to me in the daytime - should I just stop going out altogether?

You actually set a good example by responding to the creep, and by reporting it to her guardians. Shows her that you don't have to keep quiet and take those kinds of comments. Keep escorting her to the activity and show her that one idiotic vile man isn't in control of her life.

Changeforachange · 12/05/2023 11:06

I'm sorry this happened, it's understandably shaken you.

But these moronic arseholes live & work among us, they don't just come out at night.

Enjoy your activity & show her how to respond, sounds like she's going to need those tools, poor love.

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 12/05/2023 11:25

Agree with the others OP. The first time a man "hit" on me I was a tall "beautiful" 9 year old in my Brownie Uniform. It went down hill from that point but I would have felt punished further if I'd had to stop doing the things I enjoyed because of it. It is so easy to internalise mens responses to you as being your fault as a teenager. I was regularly accused of flirting by adults for example to justify their own behaviour. You should be reinforcing the opposite to her. At least let her make the decision.

LightlySearedontheRealityGrill · 12/05/2023 12:14

I was 5 years old the first time I was sexually harassed, and I have a list in my head of all the revolting things males have said and done to me since.
Unfortunately it is life, and as sad as it is to say it, she might as well become resilient to it and have strategies in place. In a way its good that happened with you so you can start and have an ongoing conversation with her about it. Almost everything that happened to me I was on my own, and too embarrassed to tell anyone. I wish Id had more guidance and help in understanding the nature of many men and how to handle it and what to look out for.

Outdamnspot23 · 12/05/2023 12:47

Don't stop her doing these activities with you in the evening OP, what if she's scared to go out at night at all in the future because she's learned from you that it's dangerous? Sadly as others have said you can be harrassed at any time of the day or night, peak time for me used to be on the way home from school. The "good" thing is that you've seen what she's on the receiving end of and you can teach her how to react to it, both practically and emotionally. She can learn how to shout to draw the attention of others to what the man is doing if it's safe to do so, she can learn to report criminals to the police, and she can learn never to blame herself or second-guess her own behaviour.

I read a really powerful blog post once about changing behaviour to try and avoid this kind of thing, it said "Actually even if I walked down the road stark naked I should still not be sexually harrassed or assaulted." It really made me think - obviously not something anyone wants to do, but legally that is the case, the full blame is always on the person committing the offence, not on the victim. If she's vulnerable anyway this is a really strong lesson for her to learn.

CurlewKate · 12/05/2023 13:16

@Outdamnspot23
"Actually even if I walked down the road stark naked I should still not be sexually harrassed or assaulted."

Absolutely. As a man could. Not suggesting it, obviously!

MarkWithaC · 12/05/2023 13:21

Raquelos · 06/05/2023 10:07

Please don't curtail your perfectly reasonable activities because of the bad behaviour of a man like this. The tragedy is that these idiots are everywhere all the time. You are just as likely to experience that kind of interaction at any other time of the day. If you stay in to avoid them, you will never go out.

Better to use the opportunity to talk to the 14-year-old about how contemptible this kind of behaviour is and how they should have zero tolerance for it and other questionable behaviours in any aspect of their life, including their own friendship groups. Help her understand that these people are scumbags and that she is not responsible for their shitty actions.

It is so frustrating that we need to help our girls navigate this kind of shit, but we do because there is no way of avoiding it completely.

I agree with this. It is shite that you have to talk to a 14-year-old about creepy men, but you do, and you might as well help her to understand how to view it.

NumberTheory · 13/05/2023 09:01

Brewskipa · 06/05/2023 09:50

@dementedpixie because there are other activities we can do that we also enjoy that can be done in the day, and because making a child feel comfortable is more important to me than who “wins”.

I don’t think it’s a given that you should keep doing the activity. But I don’t think the question to ask yourself is whether it’s more important to you to that the girl is comfortable than who “wins”. The question to ask is - is it more important to her that you she avoid such comments than that she gets to do her favourite activity. Don’t let her agency be snatched away by this misogyny.

Maddy70 · 13/05/2023 13:00

CurlewKate · 12/05/2023 13:16

@Outdamnspot23
"Actually even if I walked down the road stark naked I should still not be sexually harrassed or assaulted."

Absolutely. As a man could. Not suggesting it, obviously!

You think a man would not be harrasssed or assaulted? I work in a bar and the women on hen dos are awful. Groping the singers and the waiters
They are just doing their job

It definitely happens to men to

DelphiniumBlue · 13/05/2023 13:10

The reality is that gross men try to do this sort of stuff whatever time of day or night it is. My niece has had guys try to grope her on the tube, on the bus ,on her way to school. Nothing changes, I remember this happening as a teenager myself 40+ years ago.
She's safe enough with you. I don't know if teenagers are taught at school how to call this stuff out without putting themselves in danger, it's something you'd need to discuss with her.
Don't stop doing the activity, but use it as opportunity to discuss what to do when this happens again, which it will.

iklboo · 13/05/2023 13:15

You think a man would not be harrasssed or assaulted? I work in a bar and the women on hen dos are awful. Groping the singers and the waiters They are just doing their job

That's not acceptable but generally young lads don't get cat-called, groped, verbally & sexually assaulted on a daily basis, do they? Girls do.

Ofcourseshecan · 14/05/2023 16:21

Adding my voice to all those saying it happens at any age, anywhere, any time of day. I was about 8 or 9 when a man physically molested me in a church, where my Mum and I were sightseeing one morning.

OP, help your young friend learn how to protect herself and how to develop resilience to survive in the world. Hiding away from it is not the best strategy.

Turfwars · 16/05/2023 14:31

It's sadly not the first time she's encountered creepy men - and it for sure wont be the last.

The healthiest strategy is to find a way for her to cope when these situations arise, which they undoubtedly will.

I was never given this advice, and it was sorely needed. I eventually figured it out myself but by then I was part of the middle aged contingent invisible to those kind of men and never did get to utilise the strategies I learned.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 16/05/2023 16:17

NumberTheory · 13/05/2023 09:01

I don’t think it’s a given that you should keep doing the activity. But I don’t think the question to ask yourself is whether it’s more important to you to that the girl is comfortable than who “wins”. The question to ask is - is it more important to her that you she avoid such comments than that she gets to do her favourite activity. Don’t let her agency be snatched away by this misogyny.

Show quote history

I agree with this "self exclusion" is a real thing and women and girls totally do avoid some places (at least at certain times) because they know they won't feel safe and comfortable.

It's ok to do but it shouldn't be a snap or automatic decision and it should be her decision

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