Page 2 | 13 yr old DS Men's Rights Activist?

mommyisbest · 2023-04-27T12:02:06+00:00

Need the wisdom of Mumsnetters. My 13 year old DS has said a few things to me recently about how difficult men’s lives are. He wrote an autobiography for English in which he wrote: ^my mum said to my dad that she had given up her career in law to care for kids^ ^and t^^hey argued and that’s when I realised money and career isn’t everything^. Recently he said that he saw a film about a transman who spent a year as a man and then ^committed suicide because life as a man is too difficult^. There seems to be a narrative emerging about men’s rights and how feminism is unfairly dominant. Firstly have you come across this? Secondly which books would you recommend aimed at children that challenges this?

CremeEggQueen · 02/05/2023 01:21

in which he wrote: my mum said to my dad that she had given up her career in law to care for kidsand they argued and that’s when I realised money and career isn’t everything
Not getting how that's a mens rights thing, sorry?
I take it more like realising that there is more to life than career and money and family life factors too.
Sounds like a reasonable observation, and surely good if he realises it can be that way for women a lot of the time?

Buzzinwithbez · 02/05/2023 08:25

It can be a bit of a shock to a teenager to go from a child who tends to be looked on with kindness in most public environments to a teen striking out for independence who is now under suspicion simply for being a teen.

My son was a similar age when he was pulled aside at a train station for not having proof he was under 16, though no way did he look 16. The girl he was with was treated differently. Unlike him, she wasn't threatened with the police etc. He was very shaken up by the experience as he can be of a pretty anxious nature and it was one of the first times trying to travel independently..That's just one example, but I think teenage boys are often treated differently to teenage girls and his observations from his own limited experience may well be that girls/women have it easier.

They're under a lot of pressure to confirm to society's stereotyping (boys don't cry toxic masculinity type stuff) and pretty much have it forced on them by experiences mentioned above. It's differently hard for both of course, but I think teenage boys have a pretty tough few years ahead until they age out of being viewed as someone who might cause trouble.

Buzzinwithbez · 02/05/2023 08:30

In addition, there are so many opportunities come up for girls and young people of diverse genders. This may be a way to widen the demographic as much as possible but rules out only boys who don't have a diverse gender and must cause more of them to think about their gender.
These are usually offered in the fields of art or music, which naturally may attract boys that are a bit more on the sensitive side. Yes, btdt.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 03/05/2023 22:37

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 28/04/2023 16:08

Mmm feminism isn't often a path that can become violent and comes from a real historical - and still very current - need for freedom from actual oppression.

Incels, anyone?

Tbf, the suffragettes are pretty much the most famous and respected feminists in all history and they were trying to enact Manchester bombing style terrorist attacks by planting bombs in public places like churches and the Theatre Royal.

Thankfully they didn't detonate but it wasn't for want of trying. It's quite amazing that people are happy to overlook this as it was cold calculated intent to indiscriminately murder the general public, not just a lone weirdo incel going on a psycho rampage.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 03/05/2023 22:40

I agree with the posters saying that the comment about there being 'more to life than money' doesn't seem to be anything to do with men's rights. If anything, it's recognising women's contribution.

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 22:41

I mean the first comment is concerning in a way because a child shouldn’t really be privy to adult arguments of such a deeply resentful nature, but I don’t see what it has to do with being an MRA? The second one is more MRA.

I would give him plenty of opportunities to mix with good male role models and also to do things away from the Internet and social media. Out in the real world rather than being influenced by dangerous sources online.

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 22:44

mexicanandafewdrinks · 28/04/2023 16:04

if a 13 year old girl was showing interest in feminism Id imagine the tone here would be rather different.
he sounds a very sensible young man, who will do very well in this world. hard work goes a long way.

I mean that’s a bit like if someone posted that their child was getting into ‘white pride’ and you responded ‘oh but if it was a young person of colour getting into their culture it would be fine!’

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 03/05/2023 22:48

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 22:44

I mean that’s a bit like if someone posted that their child was getting into ‘white pride’ and you responded ‘oh but if it was a young person of colour getting into their culture it would be fine!’

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Not really.

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 22:55

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 03/05/2023 22:48

Not really.

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Yes really. A boy getting into MRA ideology is nothing like a young girl starting to show an interest in feminism. For obvious reasons.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 03/05/2023 22:58

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 22:55

Yes really. A boy getting into MRA ideology is nothing like a young girl starting to show an interest in feminism. For obvious reasons.

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What are these obvious reasons?

I ask because on here 'MRA Ideology' usually stretches to include things like male suicide, homelessness, etc, which I'd say are actually pretty legitimate issues (but get ignored because unsuccessful men are viewed in a similar manner to unattractive women).

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 23:04

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 03/05/2023 22:58

What are these obvious reasons?

I ask because on here 'MRA Ideology' usually stretches to include things like male suicide, homelessness, etc, which I'd say are actually pretty legitimate issues (but get ignored because unsuccessful men are viewed in a similar manner to unattractive women).

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The obvious reason being that the entire ideology rejects the idea that men are privileged by virtue of being male, and in comparison to women. The whole thing is built on a pretence that dismisses the very real historical and social inequality between the sexes.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 03/05/2023 23:19

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 23:04

The obvious reason being that the entire ideology rejects the idea that men are privileged by virtue of being male, and in comparison to women. The whole thing is built on a pretence that dismisses the very real historical and social inequality between the sexes.

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But feminism rejects (or refuses to acknowledge) the many downsides of being a normal man and often tends to focus on CEOs etc. It's also an ideology shared by less than 1/10 UK women but tends to attempt to speak on behalf of us all.

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 23:57

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 03/05/2023 23:19

But feminism rejects (or refuses to acknowledge) the many downsides of being a normal man and often tends to focus on CEOs etc. It's also an ideology shared by less than 1/10 UK women but tends to attempt to speak on behalf of us all.

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Unfortunately I don’t think you’re of the mindset to understand the obvious. Feminism is not equatable with being an MRA.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 04/05/2023 05:27

Kanaloa · 03/05/2023 23:57

Unfortunately I don’t think you’re of the mindset to understand the obvious. Feminism is not equatable with being an MRA.

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I'd say it's pretty damn similar. Both are focused on the woes of being a particular sex and both love to moan about the other sex as the root of all their problems.

Floogal · 04/05/2023 06:18

Though to be fair, I actually like Roma Army's videos. Wonder what she'd make of Mumsnet lol

Famzonhol · 04/05/2023 10:25

Boys need to be aware that some girls/women will use and manipulate them (often for money) and girls need to be aware that some boys/men will use and manipulate them (often for sex but sometimes also for money).

An extra difficulty for girls is that they have more to lose sexually (pregnancy, STIs, future infertility) so I don’t subscribe to the breezy “enjoy yourselves as much as the boys do” mentality for young girls.

Unpleasant men who use violence are a problem for both men and women.

This is what I’ll teach my teens - male and female. Work hard, don’t depend upon or lean on others. Stay away from unpleasant people of both sexes and look out for people who make you feel happy and secure.

sashagabadon · 04/05/2023 10:34

My son makes occasional similar comments like boys do worse at school than girls for example and if it’s true I agree with him ( as girls do do better) but that is an average and their are boys that do very well and girls that fail.
so I try and balance it a bit.
he also once mentioned about men soldiers dying in war and that is also true but I countered with women being raped and pointed out the millions of women that have died in childbirth over the millennia and no man had ever died this way.
sounds a bit tit for that and it’s obviously not a competition! but just wanted to counter his arguments that men are the most hard done by sex!

Famzonhol · 04/05/2023 11:48

sashagabadon · 04/05/2023 10:34

My son makes occasional similar comments like boys do worse at school than girls for example and if it’s true I agree with him ( as girls do do better) but that is an average and their are boys that do very well and girls that fail.
so I try and balance it a bit.
he also once mentioned about men soldiers dying in war and that is also true but I countered with women being raped and pointed out the millions of women that have died in childbirth over the millennia and no man had ever died this way.
sounds a bit tit for that and it’s obviously not a competition! but just wanted to counter his arguments that men are the most hard done by sex!

Sounds reasonable to me.

HowManySunflowers · 04/05/2023 13:55

@sashagabadon next time your son points out that boys do worse at school (which is true), ask him why, despite that, there is a still a gender pay gap in men's favour. So boys get worse exam results but still get paid more!

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 04/05/2023 21:24

An extra difficulty for girls is that they have more to lose sexually (pregnancy, STIs, future infertility) so I don’t subscribe to the breezy “enjoy yourselves as much as the boys do” mentality for young girls.

Not sure I agree. Would rather have to have an abortion than pay for a kid I never wanted for 18 years tbh.

next time your son points out that boys do worse at school (which is true), ask him why, despite that, there is a still a gender pay gap in men's favour. So boys get worse exam results but still get paid more!

Well, men need to earn well to have a good life. They get judged on their success to a much greater degree than we do, and let's face it they can't just marry a wealthy woman and go part time in their 30s never to return to full time work even when the kids are in school/grown up.

aloris · 05/05/2023 01:37

"An extra difficulty for girls is that they have more to lose sexually (pregnancy, STIs, future infertility) so I don’t subscribe to the breezy “enjoy yourselves as much as the boys do” mentality for young girls.

Not sure I agree. Would rather have to have an abortion than pay for a kid I never wanted for 18 years tbh."

Wow. Speak for yourself. Not all women are so callous about the humans they are carrying in their wombs. Abortion is not an emotionally or morally (or fiscally!) cost-free choice for many women.

CherryCokeFanatic · 05/05/2023 01:40

I’d be checking if he’s been watching Andrew Tate clips on TikTok, twitter, YouTube etc

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 05/05/2023 05:42

aloris · 05/05/2023 01:37

"An extra difficulty for girls is that they have more to lose sexually (pregnancy, STIs, future infertility) so I don’t subscribe to the breezy “enjoy yourselves as much as the boys do” mentality for young girls.

Not sure I agree. Would rather have to have an abortion than pay for a kid I never wanted for 18 years tbh."

Wow. Speak for yourself. Not all women are so callous about the humans they are carrying in their wombs. Abortion is not an emotionally or morally (or fiscally!) cost-free choice for many women.

And yet most women on here seem to think it's fine to have an abortion if 'the time isn't right', which often means that they want to go to uni/focus on their career etc. Just like the guy who doesn't want to have to simultaneously provide for a child whilst trying to get a degree etc.