What should we teach our sons

[DutchCowgirl]

Sometimes when i read all the topics about women in abusive relationships, or women married to complete idiots… or about totally absent fathers… i think “those men were boys once, what did their parents tell them about how to treat women?” And i have 2 teen sons myself.

What are the things that i should teach my sons about women and feminism? I feel responsible that i should “contribute” and do anything that is in my power to educate my boys before they go out into the world. (Not that the nurture-part will prevent 100% they will ever end up in a thread here, ofcourse.. but it’s worth a try)

Things i have done sofar:

• tell them about the abusive porn industry
• tell them about womens bodies and menstruation
• learn them cooking and cleaning
• they are on a mixed sportsteam so they’ll actually get in touch with girls and learn to cooperate with them.

Dh and i try to set the good example by:

• sharing childcare 50/50 both working parttime
• Sharing household chores

Do you have any further ideas?

Sounds like you will have respectful well rounded sons.
I would also add; teach them to listen, respect boundaries and no means no.

I have 3 sons.

I told them that anything other than an enthusiastic yes is effectively a no.

I taught them that women's place is right next to men in the workplace just like a man's is also in the home and that having a female boss is normal (I am a female boss).

I taught them that education is a right.
That abortion is a woman's choice and that men are just travelling in the side car (my opinion) , not driving so to speak.

Pee sitting not standing!

My ds is 8 and has met his dad once in his life so thankfully has little negative male influence yet. It is sadly obvious at school that many of the boys are hearing misogynistic crap at home and ds will repeat some choice things. I explain to him why it's not ok to say those things. I teach him respect and that we don't have jobs that are just for women or men. I feel a huge sense of responsibility to get it right with him. His own dad is a useless porn-addled waste of space and my dds' dad is an abusive prick of the highest order. Thankfully neither of them are around. In fact there's no men around at all for ds so I do worry about positive male role models. One big things is that no means no. If I say no to him asking for sweets or extra online time or whatever he wants and the answer is no, for whatever reason, then he knows to accept that the first no, is a no, and that's it. Not yet applicable to sexual situations but laying the ground work for later.

Also pee sitting here too! Why stand up fgs? And clear up after yourself in the bathroom if you need to. Pee on the seat or floor and you can clean it mister, you're old enough and sitting down removes the risk of escapee wee.

To call out behaviour of friends if they are mean/abusive or game play with girlfriends. Show them what shitty relationships are (Ross and Rachel from Friends, Twilight Bella/Edward/Jacob) and tell them why controlling behaviour is bad.

Learn to communicate without shouting , flouncing off or door slamming. That name calling in an argument, stonewalling, silent treatment, sulking etc are controlling behaviours and are not healthy. Understand that relationships have issues and you work together to solve them, not dump someone then get back together etc.

That seeing how someone treats someone they don't like really shows their character so don't be that person. There will always be someone you don't like whether at work, school, friendship groups, your sibling's partner, learn to be amicable.

That as you get older it's never ok to hit girls. DS used to fight with DD which is obviously never ok but when they were younger they were both usually giving as good as they got. But when he got to about 12 he was getting stronger and I had a serious conversation about no matter how much a girl or women is winding you up (DD had just been a complete pain to him and unplugged his computer at the wall mid game to get a reaction) it was never ever ok to hit them. And he never did so again.

He has a wonderfully gender-neutral view of men and women's roles in life, I think more through seeing me and his dad not in traditional roles. He sees nothing uncool about doing stuff with me and chats openly about sex, abortion, parenting - also economics, politics, and everything really. But maybe I was lucky with his peer group too.

A while ago there was a similar thread - this was such a good post I saved it.

Apologies to the original poster, I cant remember her name.

Much more about being able to spot catfishing
how porn is not real sex and how it is related to sex trafficking.
Better black history (not just in relation to white people: slave trade and colonialism).
Healthy relationships, how to spot an abuser and what to do.
Money handling (mortgages, savings, pensions, budgeting, business basics, scam spotting)
DIY skills (carpentry, electrics, sewing, )
Understand of politics and to see through propoganda.
Good understanding of the media, how it is bias, spotting misinformation, how to read basic research and see if it is bollocks.
Much more sport and fitness. Should be at least an hour a day.
How to cook healthily.

@Fireyflies surely the discussion is that you don't hit anyone, not just that you don't hit girls?

Yes you're right that you shouldn't hit anyone. But young boys do often jostle and rough play. There comes an age when they get stronger and it becomes not ok, and particularly not ok to hit someone smaller than you. On that occasion DD was winding DS up badly and in a way he'll probably not encounter with male friends, but might if he ends up in a relationship that's under a lot of stress (he's straight, so this would be with a woman).

Teaching consent needs to start really early - from first games in playgrounds, when you play nicely and only with people who understand the game and want to join in. And that games are not fun unless everyone's having fun.

When older, I think modelling responsible drinking is good. Explain that people often learn by getting it drastically wrong - so it's really important to look out for your mates. And don't let anyone (friend or stranger) act like creeps towards female friends. Be the one who'll see a drunk friend safely home. Remember always that people say/do things when drunk that they wouldn't do sober, and that's why drunken consent is not to be relied on.

Watch the TV and vids they like with them sometimes. It can be the springboard to all sorts of interesting discussions.

I have two sons. They don't jostle and rough play, because they've not been allowed to. They are quite able to manage that. They know that hitting is a complete no, the only qualification being if it's necessary for self-defence and then only the minimum force required.

"On that occasion DD was winding DS up badly and in a way he'll probably not encounter with male friends, but might if he ends up in a relationship that's under a lot of stress (he's straight, so this would be with a woman)." I don't know where to start with this...

From what i see in my house, the rough play comes up when they have too much energy. Sports was a solution for us. My sons do teamsport 3 times a week.. we made a small “gym” at home which we all use frequently , we use the car as little as possible, walking or cycling is preferred.

I love this- I tried so hard and was met by significant pushback!

When I mentioned that images of women in the media are heavily edited and unobtainable, they said 'well obviously, we do see women on the bus and stuff. We know what they look like.'

When I talked about respect and valuing women, I got things like, 'well obviously, because women are people too'.

I think they'd always got there before me!

I did point out that the women they know best happen to be particularly strong independent individuals, and that they need to be alert to the feelings of people who are quieter.

I also let them see the dynamics of their parents' relationship- like any relationship a mix of good and less good. Better acknowledged than ignored I feel.

DS2 was horrified by his peers' disrespect of their parents, particularly their mums. You see a lot of family dynamics through zoom- kid's telling their mum to 'just leave it on the side' 'go away I'm busy' etc.

We actually enjoy spending time together and are nice to each other, which we all appreciate!

DS2 was horrified by his peers' disrespect of their parents, particularly their mums. You see a lot of family dynamics through zoom- kid's telling their mum to 'just leave it on the side' 'go away I'm busy' etc.
I've seen a lot of that through work over the years. The number of boys who speak to their mother in a horrible way was eye opening.
Then I had DC and realised some of it starts young when I noticed young boys (3-7) speaking with disrespect to their mothers, and it was laughed at, called cute, and joked about how cheeky he was. Suddenly the way some pre-teen/teen boys spoke to their mothers made sense.

Asking "why?"
With regards to an earlier topic about boys bringing home stuff from others at school, like "a woman's place is in the kitchen".
Asking them "why do you think so and so might think this? Is this how you think it should be? If so why?" A good way of opening up a debate with a son and a good way of educating them.

Children learn a lot about relationships by observing adults. If we can model good behaviour, boys will be healthier. Boys at school who have poor attitudes to women have learned it from abusive fathers.