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Feminism: chat

Anti-feminism gaining ground rapidly in Germany

11 replies

Trennton · 14/01/2023 14:13

This German article written by Judith Fischer and published in Elle makes for depressing reading:

I am a feminist. Today I can say this with conviction, because feminism for me is the basic attitude that all people should be free. They should be free to wear what they want, to live the life they want, to have the sex they like. Free means that their gender does not matter at all and that no role models restrict them. That sounds so self-evident and yet I know the reactions only too well when I call myself a feminist: awkward silence, rolling eyes, sarcastic sayings and behind all this the thought "Oh dear, she's difficult". Those who stand up against patriarchy do not exactly make themselves popular.
But these are the better reactions. Because apparently there are people who not only smile at feminism but fight against it. And these are not so few – they are even increasing. Antifeminism is the name given to this attitude of people who reject feminism and believe that men and women should not have the same rights and freedoms. For the Leipzig Authoritarianism Study, researchers at Leipzig University have been investigating how such attitudes develop in Germany for 20 years. For 2022, they observe a clear trend: anti-feminism in Germany is increasing.

In 2020, 17.9 percent of the people surveyed anonymously were of the opinion that "feminism disturbs social harmony and order". In 2022, it will now be almost eight percent more. This means that a quarter of the population is against feminism – and the trend is rising. And that's not all, because what we observe in everyday life and experts in the field of gender studies repeatedly note is now scientifically proven: Germany is becoming more and more sexist. The study not only shows that sexism is deeply rooted in our society, but that sexist statements received even more approval last year than in 2020.

For example, one in three study participants believes that men have a more rational view of things than women. And one in four thinks that "women should reflect more on the role of wife and mother" and even considers women who decide against a family and children to be selfish. Just as many people agree with the statement that women often make themselves ridiculous in politics. This opinion was eight percent more participants in 2022 than in 2020.

Now you can ask yourself: What itches me, what some Günther at the regulars' table rumbles about feminism? But it's not that simple. According to the study, antifeminism can be found everywhere, in every income group and every population group. Every third man in Germany has a closed anti-feminist or sexist worldview. The same applies to every fifth woman. And unfortunately, it doesn't stop at the sexist jokes you tell yourself among buddies. Anti-feminist thoughts lead to hate comments on social media, to threatening e-mails to female politicians, to laws against the right to abortion, to domestic violence, which, according to police statistics, has risen by 3.4 percent in the past five years. In the worst case, antifeminism leads to femicide: 168 women were victims of an attempted or completed murder attempt last year, according to "One Billion Rising".
So anti-feminism concerns us all. The question is: What can feminists do about it? More demonstrations? More education? More activism on social media? This will be difficult, because apparently with every freedom that women fight for, anti-feminism also increases. This is the conclusion of the Leipzig researchers: Rejection of feminism comes above all from the fact that men are afraid of losing control. But if we accept all this, smile away misogynistic jokes, ignore hate comments, and remain silent in sexist discussions, we help normalize anti-feminism. So we can only fight anti-feminism by taking a clear stance against it. Over and over again. And say with conviction: I am a feminist.

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KnittedCardi · 14/01/2023 14:58

This was an interesting paragraph, from a longer piece, in the Telegraph:

The difficulty, says Reeves, is that by no means all Tate’s followers are misogynist. Rather, he notes, “We’ve torn up the old script for what it means to be a man or a woman. Women have got a powerful new script. What did we replace the male script [of economic provision for a family] with? Nothing. The script for girls is ‘do’. The script for boys is ‘don’t’. Don’t mansplain. Don’t make a pass. Being told they are a bit toxic. We create a culture in which they fear all the things they shouldn’t be. Enter Andrew Tate. There are many young men who are desperately asking how to be a man today and he provides an answer.”

I know quite a few young men, who by no means are misogynist, or anti-feminist in any way, but they do feel that they have no future any more, nothing to offer, nothing to gain, only to loose. It's a big problem. Because those who are without appropriate support fall for the misogynist "it's all women's fault" line peddled by people like Andrew Tate, who then weave that into a religious norm, and give extremism a main stream outlet.

Thesonglastslonger · 14/01/2023 15:31

I’m really worried about the way the internet has stoked and spread hatred of women. It’s just everywhere. Incels, humiliation porn, choking and violence in sex treated as normal, the attacks on women’s free speech safe spaces and sports, sexualisation of children, harassment of lesbians for refusing sex with men. Andrew Tate apparently adored by teenage boys despite (or because of?) the rape and kidnapping charges.

You used to be able to walk around Afghanistan and Iraq in a short skirt with hair blowing in the wind and no male supervisor. Not anymore. Society can change very quickly and I’m worried that misogyny is so mainstream, we are heading down a dark path. We’ve been there before. A hundred years ago British women couldn’t own land, vote, or refuse sex to their husband.

Was freedom a historical blip for us?

DoomedForLoneliness · 14/01/2023 15:31

I know quite a few young men, who by no means are misogynist, or anti-feminist in any way, but they do feel that they have no future any more, nothing to offer, nothing to gain, only to loose.

Tbh, I’ve heard this before and I’ve never really understood it.
What were these men offering in the first place?
What were they expecting to gain?
Why don’t they have a future, what does women gaining little bit (on surface level) more rights have to do with men loosing?
If they aren’t misogynystic.

ArabellaScott · 14/01/2023 17:40

Was freedom a historical blip for us?

I do worry about this. In times of stress, women, children, and more vulnerable groups tend to get blamed, tend to get attacked more.

Recent global upheavals will have brought out and exacerbated those underlying tendencies.

But they're always there. I do think that feminism is 'against the stream' - it's always going to be an uphill struggle to protect those less able to protect themselves and more vulnerable groups - just the nature of how things work, I think. That doesn't mean that things will get worse forever, of course.

We have to make constant conscious efforts to improve things. And that's where I may part company with some parts of radical feminism, because just as to address population issues you need to address infant mortality, to address issues of VAWG and other oppression you do need to address humanity's wider problems. It's all interlinked.

One thing that makes a difference is having good male role models for boys. We need more of them. So good men need to stand up.

Qualculator · 14/01/2023 22:20

That's a depressing article. I think that as things get worse economically, we should expect men to become more concerned about keeping and regaining their advantages over women.

MadameDe · 14/01/2023 22:32

I've noticed this trend on social media. Both my boys have been a bit influenced by Tate with the view "as a man you have to provide for your family and be strong". They need to be corrected and understand that nowadays it's a partnership and a man and woman bring their own strengths to the table.

Asking them what being masculine means to them they don't really know. I think the masculine identity has been lost and now they're desperate for something to cling on to.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered · 14/01/2023 23:20

Has anyone asked their daughters what being feminine means to them?

I'd guess they'd flounder a bit too.

Maybe the question to sons and daughters should be what does being a decent person mean.

Thelnebriati · 15/01/2023 15:43

Why haven't men been able to make the shift from a role as a provider to a role as an equal supportive partner?
The only reason 50% providing and 50% housework/child rearing might sound terrible is if you really believe its demeaning to wash your own socks or feed your kids, and have a right to demand someone else's labour. Which isn't acceptable in any other context.
And I don't get how they get from '50% responsibility is awful' to Andrew Tate, unless its by way of the kind of sulky 'fuck you' we see from abusers.

RosaGallica · 15/01/2023 21:46

Totally agree with TheInebriati, and perhaps there ought to be rather more sympathy for the way in which women’s economic power shifts and is so easily pushed aside for the poor menz.

LoobyDop · 16/01/2023 17:24

Where does this idea come from that it’s only worth men doing something if women can’t do it? Why can’t they find value in equality?

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