Taliban closing universities to women

[Perennis]

I'm finding this news is making me feel so angry and helpless. I know we all care less about what's happening in far away places but I can't be satisfied with the state of women's rights just because it's better closer to home.

I'm wondering if there's anything practical I can do. I've tried googling to see if there are places supporting secret online learning. Any other suggestions?

No matter how dickheadish your responses DomesticShortHair and Untitledsquatboulder I still believe we (yes I used 'we' again ) shouldn't have left Afghanistan.

Both. My opinion, based on my personal experience which is only a very limited view, is that Afghanistan is like most other countries, most of the time, in one key respect: 80-90% of the people just want to keep their heads down and get on with their lives.

The country was given a chance for the majority to change the other 20%, and didn’t take it. This majority didn’t want the Taliban and the future they were offering, but as a whole, just kind of ignored it and didn’t really bother to prevent their resurgence, leaving it all up to the various foreign countries and their forces to sort out. If they had have committed, and in conjunction with the advantages given by the security and assistance provided, the Taliban, et al, would have found a very hostile environment and likely couldn’t have operated or existed for long. Perhaps there are people now who regret taking such a passive approach, but it’s too late now. I don’t ‘blame’ them at all, I’m sure I’d be the same. But like everything, decisions (or inactions) mostly have consequences.

Quite similar parallels to Vietnam in the 60s/70s to some respect.

There is an argument to be made that their culture and resulting indoctrination made this leap very difficult, and I’d agree with that. But of course, there are examples in history where other countries/peoples have managed to do just that; often without the backing of a huge multi-national force and diplomatic effort behind it, either.

Anyway, that’s a very simplistic and narrow view for a very complex issue. But this is only a post on Mumsnet, after all.

I can see you have. And once again, you mean ‘others’, don’t you?

Yes, I mean those in the military.

Am I supposed to feel bad about not thinking it should be civilians?

It's a reminder that it's not possible to change sex or identify out of one's biological sex. Women and girls are treated differently from men and boys all over the world, resulting in violence and repression, and it's not because of their gender, it's because of their sex.

As I, as a UK citizen, am not prepared to fight in Afghanistan, or have my husband/sons do so, then I think it would be pretty hypocritical to demand others do so. Apart from which how many times do we need to be shown that military intervention to impose regime change just doesn't work there?

Untitledsquatboulder

Absolutely.

Afgani people are the only ones who can decide if they want this or not. Just like Russians, Chinese etc. Each society is the product of the government they will tolerate or permit. In some countries, religion plays a massive role but almost every country that is a more moderate democracy, the people have had to fight their way to it. Maybe in the case of UK in previous centuries, but the people have to do it.
If the people of Afghanistan don’t want Taliban rule, then they need to overthrow it however long and painful that process will be. They made almost no attempt to despite decades of training and millions of dollars in arms aid. So not enough don’t want it strongly enough yet….

You don’t have to serve in the military to have directly contributed in Afghanistan. I’m the first to acknowledge that’s not for everybody, for a multitude of reasons. There’s plenty of charities and NGOs which would have welcomed your help and assistance.

But you didn’t/aren’t doing that either, are you? It’s not that you have to, to have an opinion on what should have happened in Afghanistan. And, of course, you’ve made an indirect contribution and been impacted whether you’ve liked it or not, through your taxes and stuff or by having longer waits for hospital appointments because some of that capacity has been taken up by people who’ve had their arms and legs blown off.

What I do have an objection to is the blasé attitude to sending others without any real consideration for them or their families. And for doing so without bothering to have an thoughtful and considered opinion or not just what you want them to achieve, but how you expect them to achieve it.

I’m just going to leave this here as a reminder of the sacrifice some people have already made to your ideals. I knew Lisa, that is to say that I met her on a few occasions. She’s an example of what happens when brave young women, and men, who go off to do the bidding of others. It’s the job that they signed up for and doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t go. But it’s got to be for a very good reason, and to actually have a point and and effect.

Lisa Head

In the last Taliban era women were not allowed to work.so female doctors and nurses were barred from hospitals. But as you say, male staff were not allowed to attend to.female.patients who were left to die or get better on their own if they didn't go home to family.
I read about one man whose pregnant wife had gone into labour. He had to leave his home in the middle of the.night and sneak through the town to fetch her hospital consultant who returned with him to facilitate the birth.
Had the husband and Doctor been caught they would have been killed.

I am angry & saddened.
Glad these Afghan men are supporting them.
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/jan/04/afghan-men-quit-university-jobs-after-ban-on-women

Only a small thing, but I was heartened to see that the Australian men's cricket team, with their Government's support has pulled out of a match with Afghanistan men because of the Taliban's treatment of women.