Workmen. Can I think aloud?

[ConfusedNoMore]

I've had workmen in to do a job. It's left me with some feelings and I want to work through them.

I was in an abusive marriage. That ended years ago. I now live peacefully with my 11 year old son.

Yesterday the house was full of these men doing the work. They were pleasant enough but I felt really vulnerable. There was a lack of respect for things..such as one of them put his toolbox on my bed. Another put tools on my dining room table. They didn't clear up properly etc.

Today something major went wrong and I've complained but it's really made me feel so vulnerable and upset.

I wonder whether perhaps this is PTSD sometimes. I find men so entitled and when I have complained today, I'm feeling gaslighted when I can see the work isn't properly done. They're telling me bullshit.

Similarly I had the same buying a car. Fobbed off. Called sweetheart as if I'm stupid.

I feel angry. Really angry that navigating this world alone in 2022 is still so fucking hard for a woman.

And we have it so much better than so many places where it is dire. But it just sucks doesn't it t? Still in 2022. Equality but not in practice, because men as a group still lack respect.

I know exactly what you mean. I'm ok now but I couldn't have had work done on my house ten years ago. The legacy of an abusive x lives on though and even recently when i had hall stairs and landing done it was a bit stressful finding that decorator. when he said I'd need to get a plasterer in as well, I nearly said, forget this. I have this huge fear of being manipulated or taken advantage of (financially in this case). My x was not in this line of work at all. he was suited, booted, letters after his name... But he had that same sexist attitude, look love, ask your husband.

i had to dialogue with myself a lot while the work was being done. ''you decided to do this. It will be worth it. Things always cost more than you expect. That happens to men too. That happens to women with partners too. This will be finished soon'. This was your decision. You chose this'.

But yeh, triggering. when the decorator did up a quote with a price I said to him we haven't talked about what I wanted done, and you've done a quote. But I was afraid that I sounded ''hysterical'' to him. Like he thought I was sensitive to have my own agenda. He wanted to paint my inside doors white and I said no, I like them. He had alreayd included that in the quote.

It just reminds me of having to fight every little corner when I was with my x. Which was over a decade ago now.

I couldn't have done this shortly after I'd left him. It has taken me this long to take a deep breath and get some work done even if it's a bit triggering.

Actually, the precise thing that I found triggering was not so much that he arrived with a quote drawn up before we'd discussed exactly what I wanted done, but that he looked startled when I pointed that out to him.

He had this like whoah love expression.

But I got through it. It's done, the money is spent. The hall stairs and landing are done and lovely. Breath!

I want mine and my daughter's room done too but I need a break from work men!

I totally get it. Wierdly what has helped me is that my current workmen have now (much to my embarassment) encountered my angry ex who turned up ranting on the doorstep and one of them had to intervene. I don't wish this on you OP. But now its like they are on My Side and looking out for me. I do wonder, if I was generally more open about surviving DV, would it make me feel stronger.

OP I've got a workman coming on Thursday to do a much overdue job and you've just voiced (written) partly why I've put it off, but hadn't understood.

When I'm dealing with men in my house (basically workmen of some kind or another) I go into fawn-mode. I'm subconsciously, but actively, trying to preempt anything. I'm very happy to make cups of tea/coffee. I'm smiley. I listen to their stories (sometimes interesting, but sometimes not). I've been told I must be "the perfect wife".

I don't want an angry man, even if only a little bit angry, in my house. It's quite a scary thought.

I found a female electrician who I tried to hire once, because I recognised that it would be totally different with a woman. Unfortunately she moved though, and I haven't found another.

Urgh sympathy. That said We had a 4 month building project a few years ago. The owner of the business was an intelligent thoughtful family man. He ran a tight ship. He was there every morning to check, his men were careful at all times cleaned up carefully every evening always took their shoes off automatically and were always very very respectful. I was so impressed. Hope my experience isn’t rare.

This is so rare. You were lucky!

Can completely understand your reaction. Having workmen in my house always makes me feel on edge, I just get ignored even though I'm paying!

Tried to get new windows, arranged a time for them to come out then they took my name 'is it Miss or Mrs?', then 'will DH also be there' (no, cos he couldn't give a shit about windows) then 'we really need to schedule a time you'll both be there'. I actually did it! Then called back half an hour later to cancel and told them why.

Try to remember its not all necessarily because you're a woman tho, if you'd been a man they'd still have put tools on your bed. It's not you, it's them.

I specifically chose our builders as they were very respectful and didn't treat me like the 'little woman'. When I got the quotes they didn't suggest I 'check with my husband' about anything and didn't treat me as though I was stupid and understood nothing about building.

When the project was ongoing, they usually sought me out for the questions as I was the one managing it in our house. They are also very careful in picking their team and have had the same employees for a long time and treat them with respect too.

I am married and have (thankfully) no experience of domestic violence but I still want only people I feel safe with in the house. I try to trust my gut and if anything seems off I don't use someone.

You know this is your issue. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. They turned up to work. The fact you get vulnerable is not their fault

Sorry for the experience you had, @ConfusedNoMore

I am realising now how lucky I am to have a DH who is more engaged that I am, when it’s come to renos and having work done, so that I haven’t been forced to deal with the tediousness of the sort of men you describe.

I think you’re very brave to start a discussion on here, because as you can see, only a few posts in, and your experience is already being entirely dismissed.

Please don't blame your abuse for this reaction. It's a perfectly reasonable assessment of the situation. And you don't feel like you're being gaslit, you are being gaslit.

I am not blaming the workmen for my feelings of vulnerability. (Although I could blame men as a class I think. )

But I don't find blame a helpful concept. I'm m trying to work out my feelings and why I feel so triggered.

I think being gaslighted when in I was gaslighted so much before by my ex probably triggers me. The feeling of doubting my own judgement. The men who run the business are nice family men and I really did my best to do due diligence. I checked reviews, got three quotes, they weren't the cheapest. The sales manager guy seems nice and respectful and chatted about his kids. I suppose I now doubt myself over whether he's a nice guy as appears or if it's a sales tactic.

Maybe it's powerlessness when they're doing things you dislike. I didn't do anything about the toolbox...I had already asked them to turn music down (which they put on without asking of course and turned back up again).

I saw a photo of a suffragette the other day and I felt so angry about it. I can imagine the humiliation of being physically removed like that and being denied a voice. It's much more subtle these days but I feel we still struggle to have to have that equal voice and be heard.

I appreciate all responses. It helps me think about my feelings.

I totally get this. not all work men are like this - the ones who aren't, I will recommend to everyone I know. The ones who are make me feel so furious and helpless, I really want to object and I feel double-thwarted because I know anything I do or say will be perceived as me being a bit mad.

I really hate it when they say they will "pop round" and won't say when. I really really hate it when they just think I have nothing to do but be at home waiting for them at their convenience.

And I really really really hate it when they expect me to hover and bring them things while they do the job. have I got a bucket, have I got a cloth, blah blah blah. If you need a skivvy to do this job, get a mate, don't treat your paying customer as a servant.

I have been raving to anyone local about the plumber who fitted my shower, who turned up exactly when he said he would, took slightly less time than he said he would, left no mess and after he had gone I found he had washed up the mug from the tea I'd given him. sure, the shower works fine, but being treated with respect in my own house is worth so much.

I had an abusive relationship too which involved disrespect and ignoring my boundaries. any time I asked for respect about anything in particular that I thought was reasonable, it was treated as a huge issue and there was a huge row in which I was accused of being crazy.

I know where you’re coming from. I used to be fairly knowledgable about cars, but didn’t have the tools, space or expertise to do my own servicing etc. It was commonplace for garages to try and rip me off while gaslighting me.

On one occasion, I took my car in to have the wheels balanced/aligned because of a noticeable pull at speed and tyre wear. I went to pick the car up, paid and drove it away and it was exactly the same as before I took it in. I went back to the garage and they gave me a load of lip, literally sniggering at me and saying ‘the lady thinks her car hasn’t been done properly but I’ve told her it was’. I was livid and stuck to my guns, and eventually they admitted they had ‘forgotten’ to do my car despite charging me.

I had the same thing after an accident repair. The passenger mirror wasn’t right and I told them as much when I picked the car up. Again, they insisted it had all been done with new parts, ‘the lady thinks her car hasn’t been fixed properly but I’ve told her we used all new parts’. Again, I dug my heels in and it turned out they’d used a second hand mirror which they had knocking around presumably to save money.

These men actually think most women are stupid. Trades coming into your house are the worst - I’ve been ignored, been asked to check with DH when giving instructions, treated like a tea lady. If you say anything or stand your ground, they either get all affronted and stroppy or they make a joke out of it and tell DH he’s got a bit of a handful with me. I hate it.

My DH and I have given some thought to setting up a plumbing business that employs mainly women, and which ensures that quotes are fair, jobs are done when they are supposed to, and the site is properly cleaned up afterwards.

There’s nothing amazing in any of this, but it’s rare to find tradespeople who do do it well.

I think that if it’s done properly that there’d be an opportunity to expand to have a very profitable business.

I choose workmen specifically if they will deal with me from the off, not insist on speaking to my DH, or if I ask a question they direct the answer to him etc. Once I find a good one I tend to use them again if possible. Same when we buy a car.

I have a neighbour (male) who always insists on asking to speak with my DH when he comes round about anything to do with the fence at the bottom of the garden (bit of an ongoing saga, theirs not outs). It drives me nuts because all of the questions are really simple and not beyond my limited womanly understanding. The guy who is doing the work for him even pointed out to him the other day that I was clearly happy to answer questions and there was no need to involve my DH. He is totally going on my list of tradesmen!

I am lucky though, we can do a significant amount of DIY between us which means I don't have to go through the faff too often which is good. But I tend to put off the big jobs because I dont want the hassle of trying to find someone decent.

I loathe having workmen in. Being patronized, having to be ultra careful to not hurt any egos, being used as a skivy, shit shit work, sexual jokes and inuendosv. It's just hideous.

When women come to work non of that stress and deceit exists.

Here in Ireland trades expect youvto cook them dinner , they never clesn up , they never come when they say they will and thry are often horribly vulgar.

The first plumber I got to fix my boiler said " I'll keep you warm at night you don't need a boiler"
Fucking vomit. saymy electrician smokes in my house!
I hate hate hate having them here, dumb, abusing expensive unreliable sexist dangerous fucks.

Being rich reduces your contact with men like these and therefore brings you happiness.

It's an invasion by mostly oblivious pricks, it's totally normal for it to feel traumatic.

Wow @babasghost I'm sorry your experience has been so bad. I'm also in Ireland and have had four different tradesmen in my house for the last few weeks - plumber, plasterer, tiler and floorer. I'm running the renovation show here and they never once asked what my DP thought! Had they done so, they would have got short shift 🤨 They were nothing but respectful, never talked down to me, sought my views on absolutely everything and appreciated my input. They cleaned up after themselves every day, regularly texted me in the evening to make sure I was happy with everything and certainly never expected food or tea to be made for them. In fact, we got on so well that I bought them some six packs to take home on one of the Fridays they were here! Judging by some of the awful experiences people on this thread have had, I appear to have been very lucky.

I'm in Ireland and I find it very difficult to find a tradesman who just treats the customer with respect. Ie, doesn't try to charge me for materials id already bought, doesn't work different (later) hours than what, assumes he knows what I want, shakes his head at my taste, asks "any chance of a bitta that dinner love". That was the one who got the job then didn't arrive til 12 so he was still there in the late afternoon/early evening.
The decorator who did hall stairs and landing was ok but he fleeced me financially.

A plumber who charged me by the hour once worked 59 minutes and then went for a poo. He charged me for two hours. The toilet seat was warm after he left. I felt so fleeced.

I used to renovate properties. By and large they tradesmen have been ok, any issues I've had was not because I am a woman but that they are bad tradesmen (I went through three plumbers in one job due to incompetence). I never liked walking in to a site of men - the level of testosterone is overwhelming and I'm sure they called me a few names when I wasn't there! But they'd probably do similiar to a man.
But I hate it when they don't listen. I was standing with three guys and a female friend and there was an issue about something. I suggested a solution and they literally just looked through me. Five minutes later one of the men suggests the exact same thing and they are all over it what a great idea! I just looked at the other woman and said 'am I invisible'?
I must say the last lot doing work on my current house have been brilliant. Polite, respectful, always showed up exactly when promised and tidy. In return I paid as soon as invoices arrived and recommended them to everyone and they have worked at three other houses on my street since. Head guy was recommended by a friend - that's the way to find them.

It's sad reading these comments and awful that women have to put up with so much crap. I'm wary of workmen too and hate having to feel that way. There is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel in that there are now more women who do these jobs and they're banding together to advertise themselves. Like here: femaletradesperson.co.uk and here: www.woman-atwork.co.uk. There must be loads more. Let's make use of them.

I'm glad more women are going in to these businesses

I saw a photo of a suffragette the other day and I felt so angry about it. I can imagine the humiliation of being physically removed like that and being denied a voice. It's much more subtle these days but I feel we still struggle to have to have that equal voice and be heard.

Not to want to derail the thread, but it's hard to feel sympathy for the suffragettes when you read what they actually got up to - which most people don't.

Trying to detonate bombs at the Theatre Royal whilst full of members of the public. Their campaign to booby trap postboxes. Planting bombs in churches. Inventing the letter bomb and subsequently maiming numerous innocent postal workers who were blinded/severely burned when the IEDs detonated in transit.

Pretty grim stuff tbh and I doubt anybody would look very fondly on them had one of their own loved ones been blinded, disfigured by burns, or killed by a public bomb.

Emmeline Pankhurst was always clear that human life should not be endangered.