These murders have to stop being called 'honour killings'. There is nothing honourable about murdering your daughter!

[IncompleteSenten]

I really think the media in the UK at least should not be allowed to refer in any way to such murders as 'honour killings'. It should simply say yet another young woman was brutally murdered by her father / brother / cousins.

Here is the link www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/i-fled-home-at-15-after-being-forced-to-marry-my-cousin-then-my-younger-sister-was-honour-killed-by-my-father/ar-AAZMyF6?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=9f044d7358d9404c9e7b175ec42f7e2a

Agree. I still think about Banaz’s story now and then. Just call it what it is-murder.

Agree. They might think it’s an honour killing but to the rest of the world it’s straight up murder

We need to start calling it that.

They need to realise we will not buy the excuse of bringing shame on to the family

Lets call it what is is. Dishonourable. Murder.

I actually think it makes it sound more disgusting and they shouldn’t change it. It shouldn’t be hidden or downplayed that an innocent young woman has lost her life in a usually brutally way because of a screwed up religion/culture.

For so long as women and girls are considered "property" by men, they will never be safe and never be equal.

see also ‘mercy killings’ and ‘suicide pacts’ - another one of the latter today. Im not always convinced by these husbands who make a pathetic attempt at taking their own lives after making a successful job of doing away with their wife.

The Manchester man?

He slit her throat. That was barbaric. Then he scratched himself with a knife, took an overdose and called himself an ambulance. Yeah. He really wanted to die.

I'm not buying suicide pact at all.

No chance

Me neither

And I agree OP, although aren't they usually reported as 'so called 'honour killings''?

Was there any recorded evidence of a suicide pact? Surely they would have written / recorded it?

You’re right OP nothing honourable about them but it adds some context to what the victim had to deal with: double standards, misogyny, cultural crap. Coming from these cultures where ‘honour’ is always linked to a woman, it makes me really angry, more angry than hearing she was murdered, when I hear that word it triggers something and makes me see this is a problem in our society. Maybe because of that added dimension. I don’t really know how to explain it but yes they need to find a better term. And need to find a way of tackling this shit. You can only speak out when you’re independent of the family and community and I think it’s sad living in this country the women are still subjected to this shit but the men are living their best lives doing whatever the fuck they want, more than they could get away with back home if I’m honest.

He wrote notes supposedly from them both but her signature was not on them apparently.

I agree. We should not be using the language or concepts the perpetrators use. It’s murder. It’s misogynistic murder.

I remember hearing a performance poet read a poem protesting news readers using the term ‘ethnic cleansing’. It went ‘ the Butchers of Baghdad must be sanitary workers’. Quite right. It’s genocide.

Yes the Manchester man. No evidence of that poor woman’s wishes at all.

Part of the issue IMO is that as a society we're generally extremely reluctant to criticise anything to do with non white communities. A genuine case of political correctness working against us.

What twisted society ranks a woman's freedom of choice a more heinous crime than the committing of murder? So it's ok for a man to murder his family members, but not ok to gainsay your parents in the marriage market? Mmmmm ok... Really don't know how in 2022 those people still buy in to this crap and put up with it. Mass rebellion by women all over the world is well overdue for this and all the other crimes against womanhood.

I doubt you'll find many Westerners agreeing with honour killings.

I know this thread isn't about the Manchester case but I just wanted to add my voice to the not agreeing that it was a suicide pact at all. I read it recently & actually went back & read it again & thought 'What a load of crap'.

But nobody else seemed to be questioning it.
They were supposed to be so happy together & he didn't want to live without her but seems perfectly happy now.

Anyway, I also agree that honour killings is an awful, outdated term.
I actually remember hearing the term for the first time when I was a teen, & being very confused then, about what the 'honour' part was supposed to be.

I briefly worked in research in this area & it was always referred to as so-called "honour" killings.

Bit of a mouthful but much better at getting the point acrossed.

*across!

As far as I know Banz was tortured and raped by her male family members before they killed her where is the honor in that!

As for the Manchester murder it was just that murder.
The words we have for women murdered are
Honor killing
Suicide pact
Sex game gone wrong
It's murder at the end of the day.

It's murder , plain and simple .

Totally agree.

It should simply say yet another young woman was brutally murdered by her father / brother / cousins.

I agree to an extent, but some context must be given surely. As mentioned above, I think generally it’s reported as a ‘so called honour killing’.
I suppose it needs to be given a new official name. A bit like ‘female circumcision’ is accurately described as FGM. Or Islamic State started to be referred to as Daesh. Honour killing is as you say inaccurate - and it’s what the perpetrators would like it to be called. We should get rid of the term for that reason alone.
Not sure what to call it instead. Senseless killing by psychotic insecure and sexist wannabe patriarchs… bit long. Someone else might come up with something more snappy.