Two British women face prison for having abortions under 160-year law

[Threebutterflies]

does anyone know what this is about please?

[ilyx]

Everyone who’s ever sped in a car could have hit a pedestrian. We don’t charge them based on that

Yeah hardly the same odds is it. And you’re punished for speeding for precisely that reason, because there is a RISK of harming someone, even if you don’t harm anyone there is still a penalty.

[GCHeretic]

@Sorefrog

The CPS, who have been blamed for a dramatic collapse in the number of rape cases going to court because they were chasing conviction stats, have decided to pursue these cases against these two women. Cases where women are alleged to have caused their own abortions. Something that’s broadly accepted as a human right in this country.

I’d like to know who made that decision, how they justify it as being ‘in the public interest’ and any government pressure that may have contributed to the decision to proceed with these cases.

An abortion at 28 weeks that has not been agreed as medically necessary by a doctor is neither accepted as a human right nor is legal in the UK.

[Soubriquet]

If she didn’t know she was 28 weeks, and she wasn’t scanned, there is a chance she won’t be charged.

Like I said, they have to prove she knew she was 28 weeks pregnant

[Chesneyhawkes1]

I didn't get a scan for the pills. They asked me the date of my last period - I said I didn't know as I just kept on taking my pill with no breaks. But for some reason the pill had obo failed.

So they gave me the pills. Ended up in hospital and without wanting to cause anyone distress - I'd say it was a fairly late term abortion in the end.

The nurse was shocked when I called her to the room and so was I.

[Threebutterflies]

@Chesneyhawkes1
wow that’s awful. If you told them you didn’t know your dates no way they she had sent them . I hope your ok now that sounds very traumatic.

[grapehyacinthisactuallyblue]

At 28 weeks, it's very likely the baby will survive if it's born. So I really don't see the difference between the baby was born and killed, or baby was terminated in the womb. By 28 weeks, the mother would feel the baby moving inside. That's hard to comprehend as a mum. But then, I don't know the circumstances of the mother, so if she had real reason not to have a baby and did it as a desperate measure, I think it's horrible that she will have to face prison.

[TamSamLam]

From what I've read performing abortion is technically illegal at any point. But a reasonable defence for it is that continuing would cause unacceptable mental or physical harm to mother or baby. In other words it has to be undertaken/approved by a doctor who can medically assess the level of harm. The reality is that It's woman's choice, but not law. It means diy and backstreet abortions are illegal at any point, but only because its harder to prove the risk/benefit. The 24 weeks I don't think is a legal thing, more a medical consensus. They can happen later for medical reasons, and it can be harder to get one by choice at say 22 weeks.

Ironically in NI they have the right but not the provision.

It's been in the news more after row v wade partly because before that legally Americans had more abortion rights than us (reality not being the same as the law of course).

I've not read in detail but I think that's the jist of the law they're referring to.

[Dreamwhisper]

Have to say I really think this should be punished as not doing so is setting an awful example. It's an insanely reckless, dangerous and cruel thing to do to when a pregnancy so far along. Not to mention how traumatic and risky it would be to the woman.

However, given the current climate with the ruling over in the US, the extremity of the sentencing is pretty shitty.

It's very saddening to hear news like this. Both because of what actually happened, and how it may be used to portray women at large by certain sources.

[ErrolTheDragon]

A bit late to the thread - this is covered in The Sunday Times today

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-women-taken-to-court-over-abortions-6qgr0grn9?shareToken=1cd6f905b774d28f93f04c34a11185ef

In addition to the two women facing charges, there are other cases where women - and a 15 yo girl - have been investigated after natural miscarriages/stillbirths.

[christinarossetti39]

TamSamLam the 24 weeks cut off is to do with the law. A doctor could be prosecuted for performing an abortion at 24 +1 weeks. An abortion done under Ground E of the 1967 Act permits later abortions in particular circumstances.

The '160 year old law' is the 1861 Offences against the person Act under which abortion was unlawful. The 1967 Act created 'loopholes' inasmuch as abortion became lawful under 24 weeks with the agreement of 2 doctors and after 24 weeks for some circumstances, also with the agreement of 2 doctors.

I can't see the public interest case in pursuing these women through the courts.

[picklemewalnuts]

@Chesneyhawkes1

I didn't get a scan for the pills. They asked me the date of my last period - I said I didn't know as I just kept on taking my pill with no breaks. But for some reason the pill had obo failed.

So they gave me the pills. Ended up in hospital and without wanting to cause anyone distress - I'd say it was a fairly late term abortion in the end.

The nurse was shocked when I called her to the room and so was I.

I hope you are ok. That must have been terribly distressing, I'm sorry you went through that.

[PacketOfPolos]

I had no idea that women and girls in the UK were ever investigated in this way when they had a miscarriage.

That's very strange and concerning. The police and CPS have overall a shit record for protecting/ investigating etc women/girls who are victims of crime (certain types of crime). But they are acting full force here? 15yo girl who had miscarried? I find that really hard to believe but article has plenty comments profs docs etc so... Well there it is.