Abortion access to 24 weeks in Scotland

[MartinCraneAstronaut]

I am usually a lurker here, but after searching for discussion on this I could not find it so decided to start my own thread. Please do direct me if I have overlooked other threads!

I have spent today feeling genuinely shaken after reading the following article by Lucy Grieve in the Scotsman (published 5 June this year) - www.scotsman.com/health/the-scottish-government-is-failing-women-when-it-comes-to-abortion-lucy-grieve-3720095

I have found other threads talking about Lucy’s work with Back Off regarding abortion clinic buffer zones.

In it, she highlights the lack of abortion services in Scotland up to 24 weeks. She starts: “Since 2019, 170 Scottish women – including children under the age of 16 – have been sent across the border into England to have an abortion. This roughly equates to one Scottish woman every week that is having to make this journey to access healthcare that is legal in Scotland”…

“As it stands there is no health board in Scotland that provides abortion care up to the longstanding legal limit of 24 weeks to the women in its area. In every part of Scotland, these women are being sent to England in order to access the care they so desperately need and are legally entitled to.”

Further covered in the Guardian this week: amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/22/abortion-hierarchy-uk-lack-of-services-scotland-northern-ireland-england-terminate-pregnancy - “In some health board areas she found the service stopped significantly short of this too. In Fife, for example, it is 15 weeks and five days.”

To put it bluntly… what the fuck?! Im quite ashamed I did not know this, and ashamed of our Scottish Government (not an unfamiliar feeling, I’ll admit). This feels like such a failure of women, especially when the SNP present themselves as so bloody morally superior in all circumstances, including feminism (apologies, I wanted to write this in a dispassionate way, but have failed).

I’ve been a donating to the ASN for years now, and am shocked at the lack of vital provision right on my doorstep.

I have contacted my MSP, but am at a bit of a loss what else to do. I guess I just wanted to share and hear other’s thoughts.

Thank you, I was, at 29, the oldest there by years, at least two teens were there, one woman had been abused, one would have been disowned for being unmarried, both under 25.
My life as a single, at that point suicidal Mum struggling seemed like a picnic in comparison.
The most shocking thing, I had no counselling at all, it wasn't offered at all same when I was sterilised a year later.
I don't regret either decision, hardly the point though really.

"My feelings on abortion after 24 weeks aren’t relevant."

Anyone else's feelings are irrelevant. It's none of our business.

That woman's body is hers. She the one going through the trauma and pain. It's her body that has gone through one of the most traumatic things a human body does other than death. She's the one living with it. It really is none of our business

Thank you for the thread. This is really awful.
I guess the answer as to why lies somewhere between local NHS commissioning not prioritising this and the right of conscientious objection meaning a smaller pool of medics who object and aren’t trained or willing have a greater effect, and requiring hospital back up on hand if relatively later abortions are being provided.

Sorry that you were put through that StrawberryLipstickStateofMind

Sent with love all my posts. I'm autistic so have a clumsy posting style ❤️

Oh I couldn’t agree more! I was responding to someone asking me directly about abortion after 24 weeks. I was trying to shut down that discussion (futile!).

Ah so up to 10 weeks available in NI? And after that you travel to another country.

Yep, should be available any time, there you go, clarified.

find out your pregnant don’t want to keep it, fine. Wait 4 months then decide… nah. Big difference terminating a “bunch of cells” than a baby who could survive… so do you genuinely not believe there should be a cut off?

Yeah doesn't happen. So fuck right off.

"Oh I couldn’t agree more! I was responding to someone asking me directly about abortion after 24 weeks. I was trying to shut down that discussion (futile!)."

❤️ I'm sorry, I'm on 3 threads about this. I get confused so my fault, but I'm glad we are on the same page 🥰

Women should be able to access an abortion at any time of their pregnancy. Even after 24 weeks imo. Her body. Her choice.

Ta dahhhhh. Shock. Horror.

She can think about it as long as she likes and change her mind if she likes.

No buts. Buts are not pro-choice.

I am not sure of all of the ins and outs but I think it's a 'women's health is less important and we don't have a lot of money to fund treatments' problem.

Really interesting points - definitely ring true.

As does, of course, “women’s health is less important”, AnuSTart.

I'm so sad to read this is happening in Scotland. I also had to travel from Scotland to England for an abortion, 20 years ago now. At the time, Scotland had a 4 week wait list and I couldn't bare to wait that long, plus I'd have been much further along and I didn't want that.

I remember vividly the trip to England, my Mum was supportive and took me. We booked a cheap hotel so I didn't have to travel straight home afterwards.

There was no such thing as therapy or anything afterwards. It was such a difficult thing to go through as a very young woman and I still think about it now, even though I definitely made the right decision for me at that time. I hate to think that things are getting even worse for todays young women.

Mine wasn't available at all in Scotland and I had to wait over 4 weeks to go to England.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience too, I also still think about it, not with guilt or regret, never those, but sadness and anger at the way I was treated in a country where it's legal and free.
I mean we're the lucky ones right?

Remember a few years ago, when 2017, and the Scottish Government opened up our abortion service access to Northern Irish women? www.gov.scot/news/nhs-abortion-services-for-ni-women/

Golly, how kind of them.

In 2 years, 10 women came (obviously better than nothing, am grateful those women got the healthcare they needed, but provision was better in England) - www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-48442780.amp

I remember hearing about this and thinking a vague “oh, that’s good…” and moving on. Feel like an idiot now; it was a ‘make a big statement about being progressive and hope no-one looks any deeper than the headlines’ move.

Any suggestions for any practical action?! Besides writing to your MSP? I’ll be very interested to see his reply.

It may be a self perpetuating problem. Not enough post 18 weeks terminations in Scotland to maintain staff training, so the patients are sent to England. Meaning not enough for training purposes, etc.
I suppose it might be given a positive spin, if we are picking up and treating these women at an earlier stage of pregnancy.

Many SNP MPs voted against or abstained in the NI abortion vote. MPs like Carol Monaghan have consistently abstained in votes which promote women’s rights around abortion.

righttolife.org.uk/votes/Glasgow-North-West/Carol-Monaghan

so there are MPs who are supposed to represent their constituents but instead promote their own religious beliefs. It’s shocking and should not be allowed.

Women are not a priority to the SNP, especially not to Sturgeon. She is all in favour of trans rights though and had endless meetings with them on future policies. Abortion and future policies? You must be joking.

I’m a midwife and have worked in abortion care. I’m not surprised at all that women in Scotland are being sent to England for later terminations, even in England the number of centres that do surgical terminations all the way up to the legal limit of 23+6 are few and far between. I worked at a clinic in London and we had women coming from all over the UK and from abroad, not just Ireland but many European countries where the limit is 12-14 weeks.

The problem is, the NHS outsources nearly all abortions under 24 weeks (anything later has to be a risk to the mother’s life or a severe fetal abnormality / genetic condition incompatible with life) to the 3 main providers and the number of doctors trained and willing to do the later abortions that require a consultant-level surgeon to perform (usually anything over 16 weeks) are dwindling. They make better money working privately and/or prefer working within the NHS.

We all like to think that what happened in America could never happen here, but services are being restricted here in the UK through lack of available doctors/facilities and abortion protestors here are becoming more aggressive and using US-style intimidation tactics. It’s very worrying indeed. There isn’t the same religious-based fervour about abortion here as in the US, but apathy and taking our rights for granted is a very dangerous thing too.

This is not just a Scottish issue. Obviously the vast majority of abortions happen at less than 12 weeks. After 16 weeks the procedure is more difficult to perform and as a result there are fewer doctors trained to perform it. In 2019 I had a TFMR at 16 weeks. Because I was “just” over the cut off, I had to travel to a clinic 2.5 hours away as none of my more local ones were able to do it.

Yes they do. I watched a documentary and the young lady had one a day before the legal cut off. Also on another thread on here someone knew more than one lady who had had very late abortions.

Fuck off with your 'I'm not against abortion but...' shit. You're either pro choice or not. There is no 'but'. You're NOT pro choice - own it.

@titchy PP is in full support with the current English law on abortion up to 24 weeks and further for medical reasons. That is a completely reasonable view, lay off, please. You're not doing anyone any favours, and it's a perfectly pro choice perspective.

No need for this, especially over something that 'doesn't happen'.

My sister had a late term abortion after being passed from pillar to post for weeks. She had to travel up the country to find a doctor willing to do it.
It should not be so damn hard for any woman to carry out a decision she has made about her body. If she had been 34 weeks I would've supported her!

Women who are making this decision when it's not about medical necessity are often doing it because of abusive relationships or other issues.
No woman does it lightly. And even if they did, they should be able to!!!

Of course it happens . I’m not talking about for medical reasons . No need to tell people to fuck off and shut the fuck up.