Your vaginas are too weak!! - rage post!!

[AnnaCrowleFanGirl]

We’ve known for a long time that women are let down by a medical profession that treats men as the default person with for example only the most cursory training on the menopause. But I cannot believe that almost all women’s health physiotherapists are working on a model of the body that was outdated in the 80s/90s. The idea that your pelvic floor holds up your organs or else they can ‘fall down’ causing pelvic disfunction/prolapse has now been proven to be totally wrong by the amazing Anna Crowle! Prolapse is caused by tension not weakness and kegels appear to make that tension worse. I am raging that women are told they basically have a weak vagina and that is why they are suffering. It is so sexist and insulting to women. Like now you have had a baby you’re broken and it’s your fault for being weak. Just raging at this!

So pelvic floor exercises are a waste of time ? I quite like doing them (have been doing so since pregnant with DS, now 18) it will a hard habit to break, but if they are counterproductive?

What causes the tension that causes the prolapse then? I'm still being advised to do pelvic floor exercises. I always forget though.

Can you link to Anna's research?

I'm having pelvic floor repair next week so very interested in this. Been told that after surgery I need to do pelvic floor exercises to play my part after the surgeons hard work..

Pelvic organ repair*

Tell me more about this. I suffered prolapse post a traumatic delivery after following physio advice… and always felt somehow it caused it!

Interesting. Would like to know what Elaine Miller says about this research.

Quick look shows she specialises in 'myofascial release', so skeptical. One name does not undo years of research and understanding, yes too much tension in the pelvic floor can be an issue (I weight train and I'm pregnant so I know) but this isn't the same reason for everyone.

Here is the link to her website where she talks about her 2 research papers

www.annacrowle.co.uk/for-professionals/

The tension is often caused by scar tissue from birth injuries. But other tension in the pelvis can also be an issue.

Anna has done some great interviews on YouTube and podcast interviews. If you are interested in finding out more about her work and findings I recommend searching her name there.

Her background is in Myofascial release as well as womens physiotherapy so this is her approach to it but she also recommends other ways to release tension.

Are you just here to do promo for her?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz No I don’t know her at all, just admire her work. Glad you asked that actually as I was just starting to worry I was coming across like that 😆

Given that your username is her name, and you appear to be a new poster, it's pretty obvious.

@AnnaCrowleFanGirl what's your personal knowledge, experience? how do you know she's right and everyone else is wrong?

Just out of interest.

HeyBlaby That is interesting you are coming at this with a background/knowledge of weight training. AC advocates building strength with more whole body/functional exercise (though it has to be carefully considered to be suitable) rather than kegels.

I'd be interested in hearing what @gussiegrips thinks about this.

This is indeed interesting and I'd like to see more info / research.

But, OP, I think you're overthinking the use of "weak" and making it ideological rather than just a term to describe the (possible) state of the muscles in a vagina. Muscles can lose strength, whether they are in your arms or your pelvic floor. Another word for loss of strength is weakness. It can't be compared, for example, the word "hysteria" which is very much a term steeped in patriarchy.

"Misogyny" than patriarch, sorry.

@jeremyjamjam

This is indeed interesting and I'd like to see more info / research.

But, OP, I think you're overthinking the use of "weak" and making it ideological rather than just a term to describe the (possible) state of the muscles in a vagina. Muscles can lose strength, whether they are in your arms or your pelvic floor. Another word for loss of strength is weakness. It can't be compared, for example, the word "hysteria" which is very much a term steeped in patriarchy.

I agree jeremyjamjam.

This would be more appropriately placed in Women's Health imo.

Mnmmnn not so sure about this

No impact factor for the journal available and a non randomised trial - likely therefore to be a significant placebo effect.

@AnnaCrowleFanGirl

HeyBlaby That is interesting you are coming at this with a background/knowledge of weight training. AC advocates building strength with more whole body/functional exercise (though it has to be carefully considered to be suitable) rather than kegels.

As does every womens health physio I've seen, spoken to, and respect. They have all advocated kegels AS PART of a holistic approach that includes strengthening the wider supporting muscle groups - back, glutes, abs etc. As well as lifestyle support and tweaks.

My prolapse wasn't due to tension but weakness. The above strengthened my entire body and led to me being entirely asymptomatic re my prolapse. My friend had pain due to pelvic tension. She was given a different programme of treatment, which worked for her. Two different things, two different treatment regimes.

"other tension in the pelvis can also be an issue"

That sounds more like pelvic weakness has resulted in compensatory tension in other areas to take on the work of the weaker areas? Which is well known physiological problem when there is a weak area; other muscles take the load and causes problems. I'm not sure that she isn't confusing cause and effect here...

@jeremyjamjam

This is indeed interesting and I'd like to see more info / research.

But, OP, I think you're overthinking the use of "weak" and making it ideological rather than just a term to describe the (possible) state of the muscles in a vagina. Muscles can lose strength, whether they are in your arms or your pelvic floor. Another word for loss of strength is weakness. It can't be compared, for example, the word "hysteria" which is very much a term steeped in patriarchy.

I entirely agree. And actually, claiming the word "weak" for my pelvic floor and describing it in the same way I do my "weak" ankle has really helped me. One was weakened by a fall, the other by pregnancies. In both cases they've healed, but have a tendency to weakness if I don't look after myself. Seeing my pelvic floor - my vagina ultimately - as no different from any other muscle group or part of my body was incredibly important as part of the psychological healing I had to do post prolapse.

Interested to hear all of these viewpoints thank you.

Years ago when I was pregnant with dd, I went to a physio specialising in pelvic health. She showed me how to fully relax the pelvic floor muscles after each kegel and was adamant that it was the most important part of it.

I used the same technique giving birth to release rather than push. And the recovery afterwards was much faster than with my first when I was furiously squeezing but not completing the cycles.