Transgender sport issue solved by Sharron Davies

[girasol]

Apologies if this has been posted already (if so I missed it) but what an amazingly persuasive and eloquent article by Olympic silver medalist Sharron Davies (bravo Sharron!! 👏). Rightly drawing the parallel between doped athletes of the 70s cheating other competitors out of medals and simply being able to participate in sport, with athletes who have benefited from male puberty cheating by competing against women.

She goes on to outline solution to the destruction of female sport:

• replace current men’s sporting categories/teams with an “open” category. Likely that men will be the main participants but open to trans women, non binary and anyone and everyone else (including women) however they identify.
• retain women’s categories / teams which are open only to women as well as other protected categories for eg para athletes, age groups (U18, veterans or whatever).

Simple and inclusive without throwing women under the bus.

Brilliant.

I suspect she’s not the first to suggest it but it’s the first time I’ve heard it.

Injustice of transgender athletes has echo of the dopers I faced

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1883a6ea-b020-11ec-8b8c-0207c0fd6104?shareToken=a5287ebb523b2c32241477d47c0f1a64

But the trans women don't want to compete against men anymore. They wouldn't be able to win

Yes it is brilliant.

Sharron Davies has suggested a much fairer system all round.
Sorry to hear you faced cheaters in your sport OP, not good, so demoralising.

She is eminently sensible.

This is the only way forward. Womens sports categories are not there to validate mens feelings.

This sort of already happens.
After a recent race, I filtered the results to female, men and non- binary, and runners giving gender as non- binary were in the mens results. Women separate.
Might have been a mistake, but it seemed sensible.

Trans women who compete in women’s sport must have a low moral compass if they are happy to cheat. And I guess there is a financial motivation there as well.

I have been saying this for a while. Most athletes have to go to great lengths to prove that any medicine they take will not be performance enhancing, to the extent that I once shared a ward with a professional athlete who could not receive any post-operative pain medication. The idea is you compete on natural ability. Suddenly trans people pumped full of drugs get different treatment.

The answer in the absence of trans categories is to protect women’s sport for biological women and open men’s sport to all athletes good enough to be selected - biological men and women, trans people etc.

But isn't the point that transwomen don't like any hint that they're not really women?

Or at least, the extreme transactivist online movement takes this stance. The extremists aren't looking for equity or equality. They don't give a tiny shit. They're looking for validation and to trample anyone who questions them into submission.

So yes, a third option is fair in sports but misses the point of what they want, which isn't a level playing field, it's to win an ideological battle overall.

@Vanishun

But isn't the point that transwomen don't like any hint that they're not really women?

Or at least, the extreme transactivist online movement takes this stance. The extremists aren't looking for equity or equality. They don't give a tiny shit. They're looking for validation and to trample anyone who questions them into submission.

So yes, a third option is fair in sports but misses the point of what they want, which isn't a level playing field, it's to win an ideological battle overall.

You are of course correct in everything you say @Vanishun, but the more we can do to expose their ideology for the sham it is, the better.

I think many people have a reasonable amount of sympathy for trans people generally (as opposed to rabid TRAs) and for the fact that it could be distressing for a sportsperson who has genuine gender dysmorphia to have no choice but to compete with athletes of their own sex.

But that problem is solved completely with Sharron's suggestion of having an open category that is completely inclusive/for everyone and anyone, and then protected categories for (biological) women, veterans, U16s or whatever.

Yes, the TRAs would continue to screech/threaten/bully but their arguments look much more weaker to the Jo(e) Average than was the case before.

I also suggested this could be a potential option, but I was widely accused of "mansplaining" something that had already been suggested by a woman.

So it's only fine to suggest something like this if you're a woman. If you're a man, you need to stop talking.

It's an excellent idea.

I agree - I can't see how taking drugs to reduce testosterone is any different in principle to taking drugs to enhance performance.

Alternatively have a transwoman category - guess how many takers there will be when they have to come up against athletes of their own sex?

Alternatively have a transwoman category - guess how many takers there will be when they have to come up against athletes of their own sex?

Ummm, well it would be a transwoman category, so 100% of the participants are going to be transwomen...

But they wouldn't be up against biological women, so the inbuilt advantage of going through male puberty would be the same for them all i.e. it wouldn't be there. They then might have to confront the issue which countless biological men and women athletes have to, in that they are good, but not world beating - not the next Usain Bolt or whoever.

Where would the trans men go? They're stronger than women but will lose out to men and trans women.

Where would the trans men go? They're stronger than women but will lose out to men and trans women.

There are lots of innate biological advantages which people have over other people in sport, and we should all just accept that- a point that is lost on the average mumsnetter, unfortunately.

I think it's terrible. The open category would be the one with all the status and women's would be a subcategory like under 16s or masters. It needs to be men's sport and women's sport imo.

It's a complex situation, because transmen and transwomen are of course different, and those on drugs and not on drugs are different. Perhaps there could be a handicap system.

@greasyshoes

Where would the trans men go? They're stronger than women but will lose out to men and trans women.

There are lots of innate biological advantages which people have over other people in sport, and we should all just accept that- a point that is lost on the average mumsnetter, unfortunately.

Taking drugs is very different from an "innate biological advantage".

@greasyshoes

Where would the trans men go? They're stronger than women but will lose out to men and trans women.

There are lots of innate biological advantages which people have over other people in sport, and we should all just accept that- a point that is lost on the average mumsnetter, unfortunately.

Eh what? The additional strength would be from taking testosterone - which is considered doping.