"but men get falsley accused of assault"

[loopysnooker]

Hello, I'm a regular poster on different topics but this is my first time on this board. I meant to post under just feminism rather than sex and gender so hopefully I'm not in the wrong bit.

Recently I've had a couple of men argue with me about feminism by saying, essentially "men get falsely accused of assault".

This really gets to me because it's such an obtuse thing to say, like implying because that happens we should just forget #metoo because it harms men or something?

The other reason it gets to me is that it seems like such an incel type of thing to say, erasing a problem that affects women by railroading it with a problem that affects men.

Obviously if someone is falsely accused then that's awful and it also harms every person (male or female) who gets assaulted.

What's a good thing to say back to this kind of statement?

Agree with it - sounds counter intuitive I know, but it is a fact that occasionally maliciious complaints are made. They can't just be airbrushed away, and neither is it right to try to veto people bringing up related points.

Assuming your aim is to deal with it and move on, then agree with them note that it's a travesty and that accusers who do this should have the book thrown at them. But that mercifully it's so rare that it really doesn't need to be the first thought (or the policy driver) when people come forwards with their accounts

“I’m not talking about the minority of false accusations, I’m talking about the shocking rates of sexual assault and rape. Why are you trying to change the subject?” With a judgemental look and head tilt

Wait until they talk about a men’s topic like suicide rates and just overtake the conversation talking about women. Tell them that’s how they come across.

I'll try both of these approaches!

750 postal workers got falsely accused AND prosecuted for fraud. I have had not a single person say that fraud shouldn’t be prosecuted.

"Did you know that statistically speaking you're more likely to be raped by another man than falsely accused of rape by a woman."

Sorry, posted before I was done, but that's what I'd say. If been are going to go in for faux-concerned whataboutery then I'm going to tell them that even if they only care about their own self, statistically they'd be more smart to be concerned about the actions of other men.

@RadicalFern

"Did you know that statistically speaking you're more likely to be raped by another man than falsely accused of rape by a woman."

I like that response.

Yes it's such a stupid non-point to make, isn't it? If people are occasionally falsely accused of murder or burglary, should we just throw our hands up and say "Oh well - no point in prosecuting anyone for those crimes then, eh?"

Hmm. I would have been totally with you then my lovely young teen Dd was accused of a an awful crime which caused a huge amount of upset then the girl admitted it was all made up lies and she was “bored”. Shook me somewhat with my “ false accusations are rare” stance when it actually happens it is bloody frightening.

False accusation do happen acknowledge that then carry on with the point you are discussing .

@MsTSwift

Hmm. I would have been totally with you then my lovely young teen Dd was accused of a an awful crime which caused a huge amount of upset then the girl admitted it was all made up lies and she was “bored”. Shook me somewhat with my “ false accusations are rare” stance when it actually happens it is bloody frightening.

Similar happened to my family member

Still rare but as you say bloody scary

I was having this exact same chat with my DP a couple of nights ago while watching a disturbing documentary about Hugh Hefner!

The answers on here are excellent! I do wish this thread had been up before or that I'd not ended up in that conversation accidentally.

Hmm. I would have been totally with you then my lovely young teen Dd was accused of a an awful crime which caused a huge amount of upset then the girl admitted it was all made up lies and she was “bored”. Shook me somewhat with my “ false accusations are rare” stance when it actually happens it is bloody frightening.

But nobody is saying it doesn't happen, or that it's not awful when it does happen. The fact that it does happen and is frightening are not reasons not to agree with the OP, who is criticising men who attempt to derail or shut down conversations about VAWG by saying women make it up.

It is rare, and it is awful, but if someone gives me that argument i say that we hear about it and the punishments are harsh.
Much more harsh than what most rapists get which is - they get away with it.

Ask why they feel uncomfortable sticking to the topic and wanting to deflect, I've found that very useful in the past.

False accusations of rape/sexual assault don't just harm the person they are falsely accusing (and their families), it also harms the real victims and makes it harder for them to come forward.

I'm sure there's a statistic for the UK that shows that the proportion of false accusations of rape is LOWER than the proportion of false accusations for other types of crime.

Yet false accusations only ever seem to be mentioned in connection with rape, which gives the impression to a casual observer that the only problem with false accusations is women making up stories about rape. The opposite is true.

I think when someone says something like this, it often isn't really a complete thought. You often have to chat with them a bit to figure out what it is they are getting at.

Depending on the context of the discussion it may or may not be really relevant.

@ifIwerenotanandroid

I'm sure there's a statistic for the UK that shows that the proportion of false accusations of rape is LOWER than the proportion of false accusations for other types of crime.

Yet false accusations only ever seem to be mentioned in connection with rape, which gives the impression to a casual observer that the only problem with false accusations is women making up stories about rape. The opposite is true.

Oh I would love to have my hands on these stats!

I'd tell them that, yes, the handful of stories of this that come out about this make the news.

What doesn't make the news is the vast number of female survivors of male abuse who are never believed and endure the mental impact of that, while watching their abuser/rapist get on with his life, knowing he is probably doing the same to other women.

Do they really imagine that there aren't infinitely more silent female victims whose lives have been ruined by male violence than there are men who lives have been ruined by a false accusation?

Also always worth telling these people that just because a guy isn't found guilty of assault/rape that is not proof or an indicator that the woman is lying - it's just there was not sufficient evidence, which is often the difficulty with these cases.

light - interesting article here. Don't know where I heard it.

www.open.ac.uk/research/news/false-accusations-sexual-violence

Thanks!

I think this sums it up pretty well

Yes it DOES harm to the real victims. Men DO get falsely accused. Teachers particularly. Any crime is disgusting but so are false allegations. Look at the Post Office Scandal. How many of those people were judged guilty initially???
let’s just look at each case individually rather that generalise.

I've see this written before but its a bit of rhetorical fluff - there is no such data.

i wish mumsnet closed zombie threads