Great British Pottery Throwdown - pronouns

[TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat]

Has anyone noticed that AJ has "they, their, theirs" as their preferred pronouns? It seems to work fine, though it still gives me a moment's pause when the voice-over says things like "AJ is moving their pot into the drying room," or the subtitles say THEY LAUGH instead of SHE LAUGHS.

They (the potters) were making animal related items this week, and they (AJ) called the creature they (AJ) were making: "him."

It's the first time I've come across this particular pronoun choice in real life, so was interested to see how it works in practice.

[QuinkWashable]

A lot of the time 'they' is fine - we already use it, almost as a distancing/polite thing, or when we don't know if the person we're talking about is a man or a woman.

BUT, it can get confusing, especially when you're trying to use a pronoun to clarify who you're talking about within a group - 'I had lunch with my family and NB person, and then they took the dog for a walk' - it's entirely unclear who did it, and yes, you could use the name - but not if you don't know their name (see! Their is perfectly fine here), and it does sound odd if you keep using a name when you'd normally use a pronoun

[QuinkWashable]

Mainly I still just find it a bit sad that a woman can't just be a woman who wears what she likes, has whatever hobbies, and whatever hair. That someone feels that means they can't be a woman disturbs me.

Especially when you look around the pottery room and see all sorts.

[Phos]

I've seen it a few times now so I'm getting used to it. It does jar a bit because it's hard not to think of it as a plural but I suppose we've always used it in a way. Imagine if you find a phone on a seat in a restaurant "Oh look someone has left their phone behind"

[MangyInseam]

It works in certain instances, and it's used a lot when the sex of the person is unknown. I have to say I don't love that usage in print but it at least parallels what people tend to do in speech. In some cases it's outright confusing. But I really dislike it when it's used for a singular, known, person. We all know Ashely or Kai are really female and calling them by the plural pronoun accomplishes nothing towards diminishing that knowledge.

[ComtesseDeSpair]

I do a lot of blind recruitment so am used to saying “they” when talking about a candidate whose details I don’t know from their CV, or talking about a candidate to somebody else where details are supposed to remain confidential. It’s not that cumbersome once you’ve done it for a bit.

[3timeslucky]

@ComtesseDeSpair

I do a lot of blind recruitment so am used to saying “they” when talking about a candidate whose details I don’t know from their CV, or talking about a candidate to somebody else where details are supposed to remain confidential. It’s not that cumbersome once you’ve done it for a bit.

I've heard the opposite said about the same environment. "They" led the project" is really unhelpful when you want to know what the individual did and not their team. Using "they" it could be either.

[SamphiretheStickerist]

If you listen to them discuss all of the potters they do use he, she and they consistantly - as in it is only AJ who is They.

So I have been assuming that AJ is non-binary. Unlike Rose who is 'she', a transwoman.

[Smartiepants79]

@QuinkWashable

Mainly I still just find it a bit sad that a woman can't just be a woman who wears what she likes, has whatever hobbies, and whatever hair. That someone feels that means they can't be a woman disturbs me.

Especially when you look around the pottery room and see all sorts.

I agree with this. Why can’t she just be a lesbian woman?
I don’t understand pronoun issues at all!
Thankfully I work with 5 year olds so it doesn’t come up much!

[Smartiepants79]

Sorry, presumably that should say ‘they be a lesbian woman??

[MayMorris]

Bloody hell…are you usually so judge on way people look? Are you always attractive to look at by everyone who sees you 🙄

[Maflingo]

What a horrible comment! No wonder the thread died!

[TheSpottedZebra]

I've been watching pottery and liked, and think AJ seems lovely. And an excellent Potter. I'd call myself gender critical but will happily repsect people's beliefs and feelings and use their desired pronouns. But I won't state mine unless forced to.

I did think the gender thing was interesting interesting last episode when the (all female-born) group had to make self image sculptures, and all of the images in some way were related to womanhood or identity. AJ's was about not fitting in, one was about being a mother but trying to retain a sense of self. The winning sculpture was about coming through breast cancer. And the supportive energy innthe room seemed very female. And that all co-existed with respecting AJ and how they choose to self-define.

[3timeslucky]

The work they did (they plural) was just fantastic. It was such a personal and reflective task and the outcomes were brilliant.

I have to admit I struggle with the pronouns even thinking about them (them being the pronouns). I'm sure if I was on-site I'd be trying to get it right when talking about the people with gender identities (which seems to be the only time they (the pronouns) are relevant. But the reality is that I see AJ as a woman and instinctively think and refer to her as she, and I see Rose as a man with an eclectic sense of style that includes a bob, dickie bow tie and long skirt (is that not a trip hazard carrying pottery?) If they (AJ and Rose) never hear me using pronouns to describe them, do they (the pronouns I use) matter? I assume they would if it was reported to AJ and Rose that I had used the wrong pronouns, but why would anyone report that to them?

I've no difficulty using whatever names they like, but the pronouns tie me in knots.

[LosingTheWill2022]

FFS @hattie 43 what a nasty, judgemental post about people's looks.

[Saucery]

I don’t have a problem with referring to AJ as ‘they’, but I can’t call Rose ‘she’ easily. I think it’s because AJ is setting themselves out of the gender box, whereas Rose is opting into an identity a gender critical person like me feels they don’t belong.
The impression I get of AJ is of someone who doesn’t want their biological sex to be the first thing anyone judges, as their pottery should be that thing.
It was still a stunningly Female energy in that studio in last week’s episode , however anyone chooses to identify.

Also, as I said on the Telly Addicts thread, AJ reminds me of someone I was friends with at secondary school, who deliberately didn’t conform to gender norms (and was also very artistic).

[Ijustreallywantacat]

I think AJ is, much like many GC people on here, opting out of the 'gender' thing, just in a different way. Lots in common really.
They're an excellent potter and using the right pronouns is not difficult.

I suppose it doesn't matter when they're not in front of you. We could call Keith 'she' and she'd be none the wiser, for example.

[Dumblebum]

@hattie43

AJ is a really unattractive' they' .
Rose on the other hand is very sweet and totally suits her look.
I'm also sad that Ellie has now been replaced by the very unattractive loud Siobhan . I think I must be lookist

If “lookist” means judgemental and mean, then yes, what would possess you to write something like that? Even if you thought it was there no part of you that thought this isn’t ok?

Aj has a lovely face, and seems a lovely person, they are not remotely unattractive, and as much as I don’t think siobhans hair style does her any favours, she’s clearly not unattractive, she’s just a normal person.

[Saucery]

Strangely, (or not), this week was the first time I slipped up with AJ’s pronouns when discussing the programme with DH. Like all the Female energy in that room made me forget they had opted out, if that makes sense. Which I wouldn’t have done for any other contestant or the judges, because ‘say what you see’ is so deeply ingrained in society.

I’m really cross I missed out on AJ’s shop update of Blobs btw. I want one so much! Still toying with the idea of getting one of Jenny’s butter dishes…… I have a set of tiny pots by Christine I bought a few years ago.

[gogohm]

I'm used to using they for the toddlers at tots ever since making the wrong assumption - it's amazing how ambiguous the sex can be in small children and some trendy parents around here do the gender neutral clothing (or possibly hand me downs) and boys hair is left to grow

[Saucery]

I think we can guess what set of values hattie43 applies to life and acceptance of the many shapes, sizes and looks female born women have ain’t one of them
Wonder what hattie thinks of Keith’s or Rich’s presentation? Probably best hattie keeps that to hattie ‘s self.

[HeadingForHome]

I think it’s because AJ is setting themselves out of the gender box, whereas Rose is opting into an identity a gender critical person like me feels they don’t belong

Interesting take.

I think I go the other way in that I find non-binary hard to accept and would suggest every person in existence is non-binary. I find the choice of they as a pronoun really self absorbed somehow and just...unnecessary. It's actually quite damaging to say that being non-binary, ie not confirming to gender stereotypes, is somehow not the norm and needs some sort of special demarcation. We all opt out of stereotypes in some ways each and every day. Doesn't make us special!

Rose identifies as a woman and would like to be addressed in a female way. For all of the issues it raises, I still do feel that's a bit more authentic.

Just my thoughts!

[HollowTalk]

@QuinkWashable

Mainly I still just find it a bit sad that a woman can't just be a woman who wears what she likes, has whatever hobbies, and whatever hair. That someone feels that means they can't be a woman disturbs me.

Especially when you look around the pottery room and see all sorts.

I find it very sad, too. The stereotyping of what women should look like and act like reminds me of what it was like decades ago - we seem to have gone backwards with it.

[HeadingForHome]

I agree and find the concept of non-binary regressive rather than progressive.