Value of playing with dolls

[Ilkleymoor]

Interesting article on how playing with dolls builds abilities to value feelings of other people and how we don't place as much value on this type of.play as Lego etc.

Also supports idea that boys are taught or not encouraged to care as much, rather than it just being boys.

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/feb/06/playing-dolls-helps-children-talk-about-how-others-feel-study

Does your little boy play with the barbies the way little girls do: endlessly dressing them up, changing their clothes, brushing their hair? Or is it more having the barbies act out scenes and roles ( which girls do too I know)?

It's mixed. Sometimes they hunt dinosaurs, sometimes they have fashion shows. He does play nurturing games with the baby dolls but then he also drags them about by their feet (as does his sister). He thinks that being a Daddy is something to aspire to and that daddy's help because his does.

I wasn't great with dolls. Hated baby dolls, liked barbies but only after I'd cut their hair and given them DIY tattoos (in my defence I grew up on military bases). I think that's why it was important even before we had a girl to ensure a range of toys. Ds got a toy hoover for his second birthday and it was the best thing ever!

Other shared interests include nerf guns, football and sword fighting. In dd's case all these things are often done whilst wearing a princess dress.

My DSs played with dolls. My oldest had two baby dolls given him when o was pregnant with his twin brothers. He loved them. The twins then had a baby doll each as well as toy pushchairs. They would put them to bed and feed them etc. I definitely think boys need to play with dolls. Not sure it stopped them being stereotypical boys though. They still pick up a stick every time we walk, throw stones and make guns out of anything they find (no toy guns here but 🙄 they made them with Lego!)

@Dinosauratemydaffodils
How wonderful that the barbies hunt dinosaurs ( if I have understood what you meant)!

@butnobodytoldme

Thank you, not yet read it but it sounds reasonable. However males and females are different for evolutionary reasons, and nothing can turn one into the other. A group of infants were presented with toy cars and toy dolls, and females chose dolls. They had not been conditioned, because they had never seen toys before. They were monkeys.

oh pee off I never played with dolls and I am 100% female and straight.

besides define a doll all children play with soft toys, girls are then encouraged by social ques to play with dolls and associated instruments, push chairs, baby baths etc in line with gender expectations, where as boys are encouraged towards building toys and moving toys like cars.

also all baby toys are the same sensory there is no difference between the baby toys given to boys and girls its only as they get older that a divide happens and widens as they get older, its impossible to know how much of that is social conditioning.

as for monkeys unless you have a link to the full video footage of the experiment their is no way of knowing if its real or confirmation bias on the part of those observing.

Thank you, not yet read it but it sounds reasonable. However males and females are different for evolutionary reasons, and nothing can turn one into the other. A group of infants were presented with toy cars and toy dolls, and females chose dolls. They had not been conditioned, because they had never seen toys before. They were monkeys

This study has been debunked. It wasn’t dolls, it was kitchen equipment and toy cars.

First question is why would males be drawn to cars and females to frying pans- monkeys don’t drive or cook, so for them there’s no relevance to the items they were given to sex.

I’ll link to this study- m.youtube.com/watch?v=nWu44AqF0iI

As “non biased” as people think they are, we all are, subconciously or not. We may think we treat boys and girls exactly the same, bit the role socialisation plays in gender roles is huge.

'We may think we treat boys and girls exactly the same, bit the role socialisation plays in gender roles is huge.'

So true, and often hugely underestimated by parents and teachers

We have a wide selection of toys for my children ds 7, ds 4, dd 1- doll houses, cars, dress up, puppets, playmobil etc. Pre reception school my ds would happily dress up in Princess dresses, care for his dolls and push a pram outside just copying his dad pushing his baby brother around. He'd also play with cars, lego, his toy kitchen. Since going to school his preferences have changed quite significantly and i find its a bit of a struggling challenging the new views and beliefs he's picked up from peers. One of his friends in year 1 had a princess and superhero party I offered him both costumes, before going to school he'd of made a beeline for the elsa dress but it was now a girls outfit and none of the boys will be wearing dresses. :( he's 7 now and into minecraft, baking, lego and sports...but left his his own devices at home he'll play "showing" his sister how to play with the baby dolls and push a pram.

23leaplo3
How interesting that you have noticed this change in your ds since he started school.
I can absolutely believe it.

A group of infants were presented with toy cars and toy dolls, and females chose dolls. They had not been conditioned, because they had never seen toys before. They were monkeys.

This isn't the case - the males grabbed the cars, when given free access, the females were as interested in the cars as the males were - they just didn't get the chance to express it.

Now what that says about males might be something else.

I have 2 DSs and noticed a definitely change when they went to school. Interestingly though, one of them was never into dolls or imaginary play, but is the most caring towards real people who are hurt or upset. So the 'pretend' caring is not essential.

I have 2 dses.

DS1 loved cars (anything with wheels) - didn't know their names or anything, just liked queuing them up and running them down things, and didn't understand soft toys or dolls at all.

DS2 couldn't care less about cars, but foolishly, I hadn't bought him any stuffies either, so he used to put his brothers cars to bed and tuck them in until I realised that children were different, and he would like some doll-toys.

Both of them played make-believe with figures from disney infinity/kinder eggs/skylanders.

and now my eldest is very into imaginative play, my youngest is still into stuffies.

I think that unconscious bias is going to be massive here - along with what is classified as a doll, but my kids

Sorry, missed - my kids are their own people, I think boys and girls toys are socially imposed.

@QuinkWashable
Your DS 2 tucking up cars in bed is too sweet for words.

I have 3DC who sadly are all a bit old for playing with toys now. DS is the one who liked small world toys the most, and would often be heard chatting away to himself as he got his characters (playmobil, schleich, lego, wooden dolls from the dolls house or superhero figures) doing different things. None of my DC were that bothered by the classic baby dolls except when I had a small baby and they'd copy what I did.

With a mix of boys and girls we had pretty much every kind of toy going as long as I thought they had educational value. Absolutely agree that playing with dolls has value and we should make dolls for both boys and girls just like we should make toys like lego for both boys and girls. We limit all our children when we restrict their toy choices.

Sadly we too have seen DC's choices change when they start school. But mine are older now and while social pressure had an impact initially, they now are older and know they don't have to conform to gender stereotypes.

@butnobodytoldme

Thank you, not yet read it but it sounds reasonable. However males and females are different for evolutionary reasons, and nothing can turn one into the other. A group of infants were presented with toy cars and toy dolls, and females chose dolls. They had not been conditioned, because they had never seen toys before. They were monkeys.

There are so many modern experiments that have shown the opposite, especially when actual blind experiments.

just like we should make toys like lego for both boys and girls

Interesting that you think lego should be made both for girls and boys. Do you associate it with boys rather than girls?

Original lego was just that. Primary coloured building blocks. Not aimed at any sex.

Says a lot that in today society lego isn’t just lego, we should make it for both boys and girls.

I suppose now that’s why we have lego friends and pink sets, because someone felt original lego wasn’t suitable for girls? Or just as likely make a pink girly version and parents will buy twice as much, as they think they need different versions for their sons.

I think it would be surprising if girls were not somewhat more likely to be interested in baby dolls, as a mammal species that produces a lot of females with no interest in mothering is unlikely to do well. But lots of boys are also quite happy to play with dolls and lots of girls not so much. Human males are often quite able to pick up child care when required though it's uncommon as the main role in many societies. So you might expect that while boys might show less interest it's not likely to be no interest.

FWIW I have three girl children and a boy, and the one who played least with dolls was a girl and so was the one who played with them most.

Yes. They are all different. However unconscious and conscious bias is a thing. I had to ban my mother from buying dd an ironing board on the basis she hadn't bought one for ds.

DS is getting married this year. Her first comment was "I hope she's a nice domesticated girl" . As domesticated as him I said, and they'll share things equally.

I suppose now that’s why we have lego friends and pink sets, because someone felt original lego wasn’t suitable for girls? Or just as likely make a pink girly version and parents will buy twice as much, as they think they need different versions for their sons.

Lego did some market research that found that despite police cars and fire engines being toys that anyone should be able to play with, and that said City sets did feature women among the firefighters and police officers, sales were still falling short with girls. So they ran focus groups and found that figures with slightly more realistic proportions appealed more to girls. Hence the Friends line. Whatever the feminist aspects of the brand, it's certainly been a commercial success.

The colour scheme is more 'girly' than most of the other output, but at least it steers clear of blanket Barbie-style pink.

My DS asked for a baby doll when he was 5 and I gave him one, even though his father was dead against it. DS cuddled the doll from time to time but never actually played with her. At 18, he still has the doll (he called her Caramel) although he rarely acknowledges her.

DS is 2 so maybe a bit too young to make a proper assessment, but he absolutely loves his "baby" and pram. I'm pregnant so got him a doll to encourage gentle handling etc. I wasn't really expecting him to love it as much as he does. He can spend hours feeding it/taking it for a walk/putting it to bed. He also loves his kitchen. He likes cars but won't dedicate hours to them and he has pretty much zero interest in ride on toys.

Interesting that you think lego should be made both for girls and boys.

While I played with Lego as a child in the 70s (I had the famous Lego kitchen set) even then it was perceived as more of a boys toy and my brothers had far more Lego than my sister and me and e.g. were given the more complex Lego Technic sets. The advertising might have been more gender neutral but I can't remember my friends having much Lego but every boy I knew had lots.

Same with my DC, the girls only every received Lego friends as presents (they got other sets from us) from other people whereas DS would get multiple sets every birthday and Christmas.

Lego should be a gender neutral toy but in practice it's not. Just like dolls should be but aren't.

@Incywinceyspider

DS is 2 so maybe a bit too young to make a proper assessment, but he absolutely loves his "baby" and pram. I'm pregnant so got him a doll to encourage gentle handling etc. I wasn't really expecting him to love it as much as he does. He can spend hours feeding it/taking it for a walk/putting it to bed. He also loves his kitchen. He likes cars but won't dedicate hours to them and he has pretty much zero interest in ride on toys.

Mine’s the same. I try to think “what would he get if he was a girl?” And do that.

@merrymelodies

My DS asked for a baby doll when he was 5 and I gave him one, even though his father was dead against it. DS cuddled the doll from time to time but never actually played with her. At 18, he still has the doll (he called her Caramel) although he rarely acknowledges her.

It’s funny as a lot of girls would be given one much younger and be used to it from around 2.