Met apologise for 'sexist, derogatory' language when searching woman

[ArabellaScott]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/24/met-apologises-to-academic-for-sexist-derogatory-language

'The Metropolitan police have apologised and paid compensation to an academic for “sexist, derogatory and unacceptable language” used by officers about her when she was strip-searched.'

'Duff was arrested on 5 May 2013 on suspicion of obstructing and assaulting police after trying to hand a legal advice card to a 15-year-old caught in a stop-and-search sweep in Hackney – allegations she was later cleared of in court. '

Is anyone going to do something about the police, at all?

I would have challenged them at the time - if i was there.

That's good to know @felix125, I know you've said you've complained about officers before. In this case, at what point would you have decided to make an official complaint about the officers behaviour?

BTW, I recently found out that police officers at West Bromwich police station call women "dishwashers". So even if it isn't as bad as some of the reports we've heard recently, the low level contempt towards women is endemic.

@Menstrualcycledisplayteam

Christ, is this pillock still spaffing on, with his boring opinions (that's you *@Felix125*, as I'm sure your powers of deduction aren't up to working that out)?

To be clear, your behavior is proving majority opinion on this board; Police attitudes to the public (and women in particular) are beyond the pale. Your determination to defend the indefensible is exactly the problem. Where's your shame? Where's your determination to do better? There isn't any. You don't care - and that's fine, we know that about you and your colleagues, but do us all a favour and fuck off back to your WhatsApp group and stop boring us with your bullshit.

I'm answering questions posed by TooBigForMyBoots - I'm not 'spaffing on'

What would you rather me do - not answer any questions?
Just ignore other posts on here?
I think that's rather rude to do so

And if you read my posts - I'm not defending anyone. Unless you can quote otherwise.

@TooBigForMyBoots

I would have challenged them at the time - if i was there.

That's good to know @felix125, I know you've said you've complained about officers before. In this case, at what point would you have decided to make an official complaint about the officers behaviour?

At the time - you can challenge them directly and escalate it there and then.

What do you mean @Felix125?

I'm not interested in your answers @Felix125. Nowhere have I seen you say that these officers behaved disgustingly and that they should be fired (which they all should). All you're interested in is that no-one can prove the way that they or the victim behaved at the scene of the original arrest - despite the fact she was found not guilty of what she was arrested for. Your single point is that she must have deserved it because (i) she was arrested and (ii) because no-one can prove otherwise - I'd love to see that bodycam footage. And that's the sum total of the level of your argument and why you, and your revolting colleagues, have been getting away with this shit for years.

Anyway, I feel a bit grubby about even having to engage with you over Mumsnet, so I'm signing off now. I notice you've nothing to say about what I posted about your colleagues at West Bromwich police station; no doubt as far as your concerned, if I can't show you video footage, it didn't happen.

*you're concerned.

@Menstrualcycledisplayteam

I'm not interested in your answers *@Felix125*. Nowhere have I seen you say that these officers behaved disgustingly and that they should be fired (which they all should). All you're interested in is that no-one can prove the way that they or the victim behaved at the scene of the original arrest - despite the fact she was found not guilty of what she was arrested for. Your single point is that she must have deserved it because (i) she was arrested and (ii) because no-one can prove otherwise - I'd love to see that bodycam footage. And that's the sum total of the level of your argument and why you, and your revolting colleagues, have been getting away with this shit for years.

Anyway, I feel a bit grubby about even having to engage with you over Mumsnet, so I'm signing off now. I notice you've nothing to say about what I posted about your colleagues at West Bromwich police station; no doubt as far as your concerned, if I can't show you video footage, it didn't happen.

All the way through this post I have said repeatedly - ".....The language used and the comments made were wrong and if the process which i described on page 6/7 for searching was stepped outside of and she was assaulted for no reason other than to effect the search - then it was wrong..."

The point about the arrest was raised by a couple of posters and a discussion between us begun about that and the court verdict (around page 7-8). If you don't want to engage in that conversation, then don't

At no point I have said that 'she has deserved it'. What i am saying is - the evidence presented at a court trial must prove the offence beyond reasonable doubt - quite different from 'she deserved it because no-one can prove otherwise'

There will be no bodycam footage as this happened before bodycams were readily available. And these are not my colleagues as I don't work for The Met.

Go back and have a read of the full threat instead of jumping in half way through. You'll find that most of the points you have raised have been answered already.

It's strange that you accuse me of 'spaffing on' yet you're asking me questions that have already been addressed.

[quote jlpartnerrs]@Felix125

You don't engage with the actual issues around the details of what happened to Dr Duff. What you are doing amounts to gaslighting us. It's standard techniques, broken record, saying things enough times that the idea becomes normalised, sowing doubt, diverting into side issues, focussing on the few proven things that support your point of view while ignoring the larger proven items that support the opposite point of view.

We've asked politely and we've asked not-so-politely that you fuck off.

We've explained that this behaviour from you who's admitted that you are both a man and a police officer is not helpful for your cause and is pissing us off. You neither have the wit not integraty to see this

You lack empathy and you have no awareness of how you behaviour is being perceived by the majority on here.

We see you[/quote]
So you suggest that if other posters ask me questions on a the subject i should just ignore it?

You believe that if any issues are raised in the posts i should just ignore them?

You can't see that my experiences in the job might not add an insight into the issues raised when a person is brought into custody who is completely unknown?

If a poster adds a question along the lines of "Why don't the police do this, Why don't they do that" and i can answer it - why shouldn't I?

And you think none of the above is engaging with the actual issue? - baring in mind i have said ".....The language used and the comments made were wrong and if the process which i described on page 6/7 for searching was stepped outside of and she was assaulted for no reason other than to effect the search - then it was wrong..."

Unless this is a forum where we just agree on everything all the time and not discuss anything.

@TooBigForMyBoots

What do you mean *@Felix125*?

It means you can challenge their behaviour there and then. Nip it in the bud - so to speak before they make any further comments - this obviously was not done.

If your 'warning' goes unheeded, you can then escalate it into a complaint against them.

Me @felix125? I couldn't do anything. At what point would you have complained about the officers involved?

Where have i said i couldn't do anything?

Are we on about the comments made here?

If that's the case - at the point that they didn't stop when i challenged them.

So, for argument sake - If i was in the custody area when the officers returned from the search and i heard the first comment made (obviously depending on what the comment was) I would challenge them on that comment and tell them its inappropriate to do so.

If this was ignored and they carried on, that's when you can escalate it further to make a complaint against them.

How come none of the officers present did what you would do @Felix125? How many official complaints have you made in your career?

How come none of the officers present did what you would do?

No idea. I would suggest perhaps if they are all making inappropriate comments, then they are not going to challenge each other on it.

How many official complaints have you made in your career?

2 that I can think of, but like i say, our force is not the Met. It might be a case that the Met have an 'in-grained' issue that other forces just done have to the same level.

A very long time ago (About the time of the first gulf war) I was in the TA based out of Handal Street. We had a number of interactions with the Met Police and the City of London Police as we were co-coordinators of events such as the Lord Mayor of London's parade. I heard stories that I assumed was male dick-fuckery about cocaine fuelled races around the M25 and of exploitation of women involved with the sex trade in Soho. I took all of that with a pinch of salt but the banter was shocking. I'm sad that it appears that the culture remains the same as evidenced by what is being revealed now.

For anyone who's interested in why someone female would be involved in the industrial-military capitalist complex - in mitigation I was a boarding school survivor with massive internalised misogyny and unaware of my colonialism white privilege.

This sort of institutionalised normalised entrenched misogyny and bullying and entitled behaviour takes a lifetime of unpicking, but you have to be teachable and willing to do the work, We have been provided with an exemplary example on this thread of how and why this is not possible within the current structures of our police force and why they are not fit to police the black, brown and female portion of our society.

Has anyone any constructive ideas about how we could move forward from here?

It might be a case that the Met have an 'in-grained' issue that other forces just done have to the same level.

I think that's the most sensible thing you've said on this thread @felix125. What is ingrained is sexism, racism, homophobia, arrogance, ignorance, prejudice, bias and the knowledge that fellow officers will always back them up. That is not a safe police service for everyone. It is not a safe police service for more than half the population.

And you are correct to acknowledge the presence of all these problems in other forces. A lot of other forces.

You can tell that’s what they do on a daily basis. They just happened to choose the ‘wrong’ victim this time.

ikeairgin

Has anyone any constructive ideas about how we could move forward from here?

Vetting will be the issue - how its done, the effectiveness of it. Does vetting need to continue through their employment. And what type of things would you look for in the vetting process which would lead to dismissal?

It was suggested some time ago that all police officers just have a 5 year contract only. At the end of this they will need to re-apply for their jobs and the vetting process starts again.

The use of Body Worn Video may be another way forward - so that they are permanently on. I think we should do this anyway - but the current infrastructure does not allow us to do it - the battery life of the camera will not last an entire shift and we do not have enough data storage capacity to save all the footage recorded

To re-gain the confidence back for women is a huge subject and not something that can be achieved overnight - but i am all ears with suggestions. We need to talk about things like this to discuss a way forward which is why i come on threads such as this.

Is there any ideas which you have that you would like to see implemented?

The MET know what a woman is when they want to insult her.

Has anyone any constructive ideas about how we could move forward from here?

I suppose asking the police to do the job they're paid for without being dicks about it is too difficult?

Vetting will be the issue - how its done, the effectiveness of it. Does vetting need to continue through their employment. And what type of things would you look for in the vetting process which would lead to dismissal?

While vetting needs looking at, a much bigger problem is Police Culture. The "bad apples" spoil the whole barrel. So officers need to be trained to challenge and de-escalate situations with fellow officers. The reporting and investigation system should be made easier. If an officer is found to be lying or covering up for another, they should immediately drop a pay grade or two. In serious cases, they should be stripped of employer contributions to their pension.

Secret Officer visits, like Secret Shoppers.

This does happen where we area.

We have an anonymous email system for such things, we also have people (in force & visitors) who act as 'observers' especially in custody.

But - I do the job without being a 'dick about it'

And to be honest the people around me do too - is not difficult to be professional, courteous, polite etc to everyone we have dealings with. Its far easier to arrest some violent person and have the ability to calm them down before & during your dealings with them.

But every now & then you will have people who just remain violent throughout

But - I do the job without being a 'dick about it'

Given your posts here @Felix125, I doubt that.