Brilliant woke misogyny, is it just me?

[TheOriginalMrsBagwell]

Facebook post from the National Marine Aquarium:

'Meet the Rangers! Here’s Jenny, (she/her), one of our Ocean Discovery Rangers. Check out this fact file of Jenny to learn a bit more about her!
We are aiming to connect you, our NMA family, with our brilliantly brainy Ocean Discovery Rangers. These guys are always around the building to help with any questions, provide you with fascinating fish facts and give amazing talks about the fish, sharks and rays!'

Everyday sexism all mixed up with some lovely virtue-signalling pronoun announcing, wonderful.

I've been one of the guys, one of the lads for years when ui started hanging out with my brother and his mates (including now OH). Doesn't bother me. They're trying to be upbeat/cheary/informal perhaps may have been better to say meet the team.

@Sonex

And is used that way as well..Man conquers space etc.

I used to deal with contracts which had the wording along the lines 'the masculine includes the feminine where the context so admits' mostly I suspect to avoid verbal gymnastics.

If I was writing the tweet, i would have said 'Rangers' rather than guys, as that's entirely appropriate to what they are, is ungendered, and cements in people's mind what to call them/ask for.

I've taken lots of groups to school netball and hockey matches and tournaments.

The word "guys" is said pretty much more often than any other word.

I actually did end up talking to bonfire night with some Irish friends. They were under the impression that we burned the Guy because we blamed him/wanted to punish him for attempting to blow up the members of parliament.

I took a moment to think, and then said, that whilst I didn't know if it was universal, I felt that I'd always been lead to believe that we burned him more as a kind of way to remember that he at least had a try, even if he failed - ie it was more of a 'well done for giving it a go' rather than a 'execute the traitor'.

But like I said, perhaps I totally mis-understood my whole life. It's happened on other things.

And yes, guys is male, but women are taught to not worry about that - much as there must be books/shows with male leads to encourage boys to read, but girls are expected to just read books with male leads and not worry about it (and don't even mention the Bechdel test)

I haven't had the chance yet, but when I can again, I'm going to try using 'gals' as a gender neutral term (I work in IT, so it's going to be a large sample of males), and see what happens.

The Facebook Post has now been changed to say "the team..."

There's a post under the original moaning about it. It's a shame for Jenny that the only post was a negative.

The post on the Facebook was a pretty mean thing to do to Jenny wasn't it OP?

Was it OP that commented on Facebook then?

In any case, it wasn't about Jenny, it was about the corporate writing about Jenny. No-one was criticising Jenny at all - in fact we were suggesting there were more interesting things to potentially say about her than forcing pronouns.

But by all means, try to guilt women standing up for women.

Has to be time for “guys” to stop being used, doesn’t it. #2022goal

'One of the lads / guys' has a specific meaning though; honorary bloke.

With Guy Fawkes I'm pretty sure it's public violent retribution, along with a celebration of the triumph of the establishment over the traitors @Kotatsu

Yes, hearing how other people see it is very eye opening to me though! I'm in my 40s and literally never imagined that it was a 'burn the catholic' situation!

Perhaps because I could never imagine why the general populous would be that upset about the ruling classes being blown up - I guess I'm seeing it as a more bloody version of how MPs are crucified in the papers now.

The general public (many of them) will have been very upset about an attempt to kill the King. It was an attempted coup, in the context of ongoing religious tension, linked to the idea of the monarch ruling according to God's favour.

There's plenty of info available about it, that a quick google would offer.

I mean, this isn't about 'how other people see' bonfire night. It really isn't that subjective.

What you feel, or think about on bonfire night yourself is entirely subjective of course. But there is a factual reason why the event exists.

James Sharpe, professor of history at the University of York, has described how Guy Fawkes came to be toasted as "the last man to enter Parliament with honest intentions".[66] William Harrison Ainsworth's 1841 historical romance Guy Fawkes; or, The Gunpowder Treason portrays Fawkes in a generally sympathetic light,[67] and his novel transformed Fawkes in the public perception into an "acceptable fictional character". Fawkes subsequently appeared as "essentially an action hero" in children's books and penny dreadfuls such as The Boyhood Days of Guy Fawkes; or, The Conspirators of Old London, published around 1905.[68] According to historian Lewis Call, Fawkes is now "a major icon in modern political culture" whose face has become "a potentially powerful instrument for the articulation of postmodern anarchism"[i] in the late 20th century.[69]

This - the last paragraph on wikipedia is the over-all attitude that I picked up through my life - Guy Fawkes as a kind of folk hero against the establishment.

This - the last paragraph on wikipedia is the over-all attitude that I picked up through my life - Guy Fawkes as a kind of folk hero against the establishment.

Same here.

Ok but that's largely about reinterpretation and re-characterisation hundreds of years after the event, then appropriation of Guido as a modern symbol of latter day struggles. Mythologizing the one thing we all know about him, so that historic and character complexity, even reality, no longer matter. A bit like Robin Hood or King Arthur.

Ok but that's largely about reinterpretation and re-characterisation hundreds of years after the event, then appropriation of Guido as a modern symbol of latter day struggles. Mythologizing the one thing we all know about him, so that historic and character complexity, even reality, no longer matter. A bit like Robin Hood or King Arthur.

Well, yes - like most traditions they've changed over the years, moving towards current feeling/away from their origins. I don't see bonfire night as anti catholic (and neither might I add did the catholics in the village I grew up in, and we all went to the next village's fireworks together) any more than the origins of any other tradition which has become disconnected from its less savoury origins.

They were under the impression that we burned the Guy because we blamed him/wanted to punish him for attempting to blow up the members of parliament.

Well, yes. The rhyme goes :

Remember, remember, the 5th of November,Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason, Why gunpowder treason, Should ever be forgot.
So, remembering an act of treason and terrorism and celebrating the fact it was thwarted - but not dwelling on the politics/religious reasons behind it.

@Kotatsu

Was it OP that commented on Facebook then?

In any case, it wasn't about Jenny, it was about the corporate writing about Jenny. No-one was criticising Jenny at all - in fact we were suggesting there were more interesting things to potentially say about her than forcing pronouns.

But by all means, try to guilt women standing up for women.

Nice try

It's not about Jenny, but it's Jenny that will feel deflated when she sees the comment on Facebook.

But, by all means allow this happen so some women can make a pointless point.

@BigFatLiar

I've been one of the guys, one of the lads for years when ui started hanging out with my brother and his mates (including now OH). Doesn't bother me. They're trying to be upbeat/cheary/informal perhaps may have been better to say meet the team.

I've been at work (v male dominated) and in meetings/ sitting with team someone comes up. Often only woman (usually!).

Afternoon gents!... Erm. And lady.
Morning chaps!

I mean I mind at all as I know them all v well and they're a lovely bunch and not doing it on purpose.

What I do dislike - I have v sweary work and sweary myself but don't like- balls to the wall, balls deep when discussing work projects.

Or something being a real ball ache.
Have said ah well I haven't got testicles so never had that trouble with my work that gets eye rolls...

The 15 mins football chat at the beginning of every meeting gets up my nose a bit as well. Yes lots of women like football. IME it's partially about the football and mainly about bonding, have noticed if s woman joins in her comments get much more lukewarm response at work.

Anyway.

Guys I agree is a male thing and women s expected not to mind as usual. Never the other way round. Loads of stuff eg children's books this dynamic.

For me though the info about Jenny, that she was a she and had job at aquarium which must probably wouldn't know what was at this point. And that's all they've got to say about Jenny. Then move onto team. I think that's v crap both for Jenny, and from general good marketing POV.

I DON'T mind at all. That's because I know them and get on with pretty much all my work mates.

If didn't know or written erm no thanks.

Back to Bonfire Night... I agree that few people probably feel the sectarianism these days. I remember that aspect was a later piece of learning for me, it wasn't emphasised in the original 'why the bad men wanted to blow up parliament and how they were stopped' story I was given.

But the nature of the celebration is that the guy is paraded around, then thrown on the bonfire. That is clearly a 'punishment' of his act, not a celebration of his effort.

The way the ritual has been adapted to include representations of current politicians and other hate figures, continues the tradition that 'the bad person is thrown on the fire'.

Re bonfire night, both kids learnt about the history at primary school.

I can't remember how but have always known the history iyswim.

Just remembered there's a BBC Dr who game that was free online iirc about 10 years ago. Whole game was based back then and about stopping buy Fawkes with full context.

I'm sure I've seen it on children's TV with kids, maybe horrible histories? And dramatisation BBC. Something just a few years back?

Quick Google, tower of London site whole section and as he was tortured there may well be stuff when you visit.
Ashmolean exhibits pics, learning session for visiting school kids
Some kind of new exciting interactive high tech thingy opposite tower
An 'immersive' experience thingy...

Just London just top hits.

Maybe taught more now?

I'm surprised so many don't know history/ consider bonfire night to be essentially not really related to the plot.

Maybe they didn't used to teach it so much?
Maybe it's taught more in certain areas?

Kids also both done great fire of London. Dd2 doing something about it for drama at mo.

Maybe this is a bit if local teaching and other areas cover different things?

Any views on NI and bonfire night?

Just remembered saw something on TV about this pretty recently. Massive massive towers built to burn, so can be seen from far away...

I'll Google

Oh wow! Knew about the towers but missed a lot!

11th night- really interesting if anyone else is interested!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleventh_Night

Sorry hands up my mistake.