Liz Kendall, baby by surrogacy

[womanity]

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/24/labour-liz-kendall-having-baby-surrogacy

I love Liz. Disappointed she’s chosen to rent a womb and buy a baby.

The Travelling Surrogate appears to have been paid £12k, which, if it included general living expenses such as rent/mortgage, gas and electricity, means she will have been able to save the equivalent sum from her wages. Combined with a post birth holiday/gift and her one year maternity leave, she has been able to trade her baby (her own baby, she used her own egg, doing DIY home insemination) for a one year holiday.

When her child grows up and goes on long lost families to find his mother I wonder how he will feel about her altruism.

surrogacy isn't a transaction at all.
So why does money change hands?
Why are contracts drawn up?

There was nothing incorrect in my statement that fostering and adoption is done solely for the benefit of the child and surrogacy is done solely for the benefit of the purchasing adult.

Surrogacy is the removing of a new born baby from their birth mother for the benefit of adults.

A mother who will have exchanged dna with the baby while they grew in their womb. A baby who is instinctively programmed to recognize their birth mother, who has the fourth trimester to grow through.

To do this for the want of an adult shouldn't be legal in any country.

Wow. That expenses YouTuber seems quite angry and rather scary @OhHolyJesus
Makes one wonder why she does it if it is all so awful...

And she calculated £1000 - £2000 for sanitary items if I heard correctly as she rattled through the list of expenses.

She must have had a very leaky bladder or something - as far as I can remember I used a few packs in the postnatal period. 🤷‍♀️

And why shouldn't a woman of 50 have a child. Men are able to have children 30 years older than that. The reasons for waiting until you are 50 is no ones business and is irrelevant when compared with the importance of giving a child a loving, stable environment to grow up in.

Why are you mentioning a man could potentially father a child when he was 80? Is this something you think people should be aspiring to?
If there shouldn't be an age limit, what about a couple, both 80, using a surrogate to have a child that they can give a loving home to? No probs there?

I'm not saying 50 is too old to become a parent, but the cut off point for me , for either mother or father would be well before 80, however loving they were or however much they could offer materially.

I've found this so upsetting to read. I'll believe surrogacy is OK when privileged women, like Liz Kendall, are handing over their babies.

And why shouldn't a woman of 50 have a child.

But she's not the one having the child. Someone much younger than her is, risking her own life and health in the process, and then handing the child over at birth, to grow up forever in the knowledge that their own mother gave them away at the earliest possible opportunity.

She is not having a child. I object to the language used. She is not expecting a baby. Another woman is.

Babies as a status symbol, taken to an inevitable conclusion

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10128323/amp/Russian-woman-24-welcomed-TWENTY-ONE-surrogate-babies-just-year.html

[quote Needmoresleep]Babies as a status symbol, taken to an inevitable conclusion

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10128323/amp/Russian-woman-24-welcomed-TWENTY-ONE-surrogate-babies-just-year.html[/quote]
That situation sickens me

Babies are not pets and their best interests should come first. There is a natural cut off point as bodies cannot carry pregnancy later for genetic reasons, so surrogacy is bypassing the natural process.

It leaves a person growing up with a mother that is already naturally closer to a grandparent in age.

When the child is still only 10 their mum is 60+, while their friends mums will be likely to be under 50. The difference will be worse as they get older.

I used to think surrogacy was a good thing and of course I would consider it for my friends.
Then I was lucky enough to have my own children. I have only ‘minor’ birth injuries but will carry the scars for the rest of my life. There were complications. Pregnancy and birth are risky, even in a country like the U.K.

what if the surrogate gets life changing injuries or dies? What about her husband and existing children?
Babies know their mother, the fourth trimester exists. It is unusual for social services to remove a baby at birth because it is acknowledged it is a deep trauma. Why would this be planned?

It’s never rich women doing it for poor women. The expenses are far in excess of what a pregnancy costs. It is buying a baby. And when it is done via other countries eg Ukraine it is exploitative and buying and selling babies.

What if the baby has a disability? There have been cases where the Baby has been left with the surrogate mother because it didn’t meet expectations or the couple’s circumstances changed or they split up.

There are so many issues with it and it is all for the wants of the adults, the needs of the child that is being created to order aren’t considered.

@gordongrumpy

People were outraged at Afghans selling their babies. Yet here we have an MP buying babies.

Yes - this! I too felt uncomfortable when I saw that Liz Kendall was having a baby via a surrogate and was even more uncomfortable when I saw all the people on Twitter rushing to congratulate her.

If they are not her eggs, then the baby won't be her biological child. And if she is not having her own biological child but wanted to be a parent and offer a child a good life, there are girls (and boys) around the world who are in dire situations. Many children have been left as orphans because of Covid in some developing countries*. She could adopt a child or two and give them a good life rather than creating another via a surrogate.

From the BMJ in July:
Covid-19: 1.5 million children have been orphaned by pandemic, study estimates
www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1871

When Liz Kendall had other options, I can't cheer her decision to have a baby via a surrogate.

*Yes, I realise adopting a child from abroad may be seen as problematic by some too. But when I see those poor girls in Afghanistan being sold by their families, it breaks my heart. A life here for those girls would be far preferable than the fate which awaits many of them now.

No one here knows whether they are her own eggs or whether her surrogate was paid - maybe it was a family member or friend.

@AdrianeMole

No one here knows whether they are her own eggs or whether her surrogate was paid - maybe it was a family member or friend.

They won't be her own eggs because she's 50. I don't actually care if it's a friend or relative or a woman she's never met before. A baby is being born to be deliberately removed from its mother to satisfy the urges of a woman who is too old to have children.

There is no way of making this scenario okay.

She may well have frozen eggs or embryos from prior infertility treatment years ago.

She may well have frozen eggs or embryos from prior infertility treatment years ago.

Possible but extremely unlikely given the timeline and the fact that she was at least 45 since she's been with her current partner.

The use of another woman's body, and the sale of the baby, is actually nothing to do with who made the gametes. If they share genetics, that may be beneficial, I guess, but the birth mother is the one the baby has been grown by, and is who the baby will feel the wrench from. It's not ok to buy a baby because the embryo was made with your gametes. It's not ok to buy babies.

Slightly off the main topic but the latest episode of the Parenting Hell podcast is an interview with H from Steps talking about surrogacy. It was quite uncomfortable listening to the transactional nature of the process.

Many children have been left as orphans because of Covid in some developing countries.

I haven't heard of any particular epidemics of COVID orphans, do you have a source? COVID does not kill very many people young enough to have tiny children, older children cannot simply be shipped out to another country with a different culture and language, and in all countries the usual thing that happens to the vast majority of orphan children is that they go to relatives.

In most countries which used to have a lot of children for overseas adoption (China, Russia, all these kinds of countries), it is now extremely difficult to adopt kids and take them to the UK--the laws changed in most places about 15 years ago or so, making this far harder, because of worry about things like child trafficking.

It is still sometimes possible to adopt a child with significant special needs (esp things like fetal alcohol syndrome) from some of those countries, but not everyone feels up to the challenge of this kind of parenting.

International adoption is also incredibly difficult and expensive, even if you can find a child.

I'm not particularly defending the decision to have a baby by surrogate at 50, just explaining why "Just adopt!!" is not the solution most people think it is.

Not my comment but for info on orphans due to Covid, the number is believed to be around 1.5 million more.

www.imperial.ac.uk/news/230956/children-orphaned-covid-19-continues-surge-during/

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01253-8/fulltext

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1871

@OhHolyJesus
Even babies who are fostered or adopted don't leave their mother until 6 weeks old.

This is not true. Children placed removed from their mother and placed into the care of the Local Authority can be and indeed are removed at birth if the child is believed to be risk.

@TheBareTree

My apologies, in adoptions there are obviously cases where the mother is incapable of providing adequate care for a newborn and the child is removed from the mother, however that mother is unable to sign over parental rights at that time even if she is not caring for the child and does not have custody of the child. Surrogacy laws and adoption laws are often compared but they are entirely different processes, (as is fostering) particularly I find, when looking at the process to apply to be the parents ...background checks, the meetings, the time it takes, the same does not apply in surrogacy arrangements, it's possible to have a baby by meeting someone through an app.

Sections 18 to 299 introduce new provisions for the placement of children for adoption. An adoption agency may (except in the case of a child who is less than 6 weeks old – see paragraph 74) only place a child for adoption with the consent of the parent or guardian (referred to in these notes as the ‘parent’) under section 199 or under an order made by the court authorising a local authority to place a child with any prospective adopters chosen by them (“a placement order”- see section 211^). Provision is made for who is to have parental responsibility for the child and the other consequences of placement with consent and placement orders.

An adoption agency may place a child who is less than 6 weeks old (“baby placement”) for adoption with the voluntary agreement of the parent or guardian. Regulations made under section 99 will set out the process for obtaining this agreement. Subsection (33) applies to such a child. When the child reaches the age of 6 weeks and adoption remains the plan, the agency should obtain the consent of the parent or a placement order.

And

Section 199 makes provision for placing children with parental consent. It allows an adoption agency to place a child for adoption where it is satisfied each parent has given consent to placement and that consent has not been withdrawn. Placement with consent may be with prospective adopters identified in the consent or with any prospective adopters who may be chosen by the agency (subsection (11)). Consent to placement with prospective adopters identified in the consent may be combined with consent to the child being subsequently placed for adoption with any prospective adopters who may be chosen by the agency (subsection (22^)). Consent can be withdrawn at any point before an application for the adoption order is made.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2002/38/notes/division/4/1/3

Historical forced adoption cases are being investigated.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-58667268

@Kokeshi123 - I put a source in my post.

I realise 'just adopt' isn't that easy but I'm sure having a baby by surrogate isn't that easy either. And if someone really wanted to give a child a good life, and can't have one of their own, then it's an option worth exploring at least.