Protect the title Nurse

[Cuck00soup]

Arbella2 has been doing sterling work over on petitions and activism to promote the current petition to protect the title Nurse in law so that it can only be used by those who are qualified and registered with the appropriate organisation.

This isn’t a TAAT, I thought it was worth discussing the feminist aspects of this. The nursing workforce is predominantly female and I can’t help thinking that is part of the issue.

As explained by prof Alison Leary in the blog linked below Although the term Registered Nurse is protected under the 1997 Nurses Midwives and Health Visiting Act, the term “nurse” is not protected in the UK. It’s an issue because the term nurse is the term in common usage. Other professional titles such as physiotherapist, hearing aid dispenser, dental nurse or paramedic are protected in law.

This means anyone can use the term nurse to offer services, advice or be employed as a “nurse”. The use of the term nurse is not restricted to use by Registered Nurses and can be used by many different types of worker. This includes assistive roles such as healthcare support workers or other professionals taking on “nursing” work.

richmondgroupofcharities.org.uk/news/guest-blog-protecting-title-nurse-uk-law

It is women who are most affected by this. If the title Nurse isn’t protected in law, the option to employ unqualified workers becomes tempting to companies looking to save money. This means nursing assistants being placed in positions they shouldn’t be, and patients and the public being at risk of receiving the wrong care. It will also, in all likelihood, exert a downward pressure on the salaries of qualified nurses.

I can’t help wondering if this would even be an issue in professions with more males.

If you would like to sign the petition, please see Arbella2’s thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4368136-protect-the-title-nurse-in-uk-law-petition-the-title-nurse-can-be-used-by-anyone-in-the-uk-petition-created-by-professor-alison-leary-rn?reverse=1

[quote happylittlevegemites]@CovidCorvid But do midwives have protection of function? I mean, are there laws that prevent non-midwives doing midwifery things?[/quote]
Yes, totally. Protection of title and function.

Interesting for the OP I just looked on the nmc website and it seems the term “registered nurse” is a protected title.

Protected title
The Council has used its powers to create three protected titles for nurses and midwives on the relevant parts of our register: ‘registered nurse’, ‘midwife’ and ‘specialist community public health nurse’.
These are called ‘protected titles’ because it is unlawful for anyone else to falsely use them. This protection for the title ‘midwife’ results from our Order (Article 44) which makes it a criminal offence for someone to falsely represent themselves as being on the register, use the protected title of midwife or to falsely represent themselves as having midwifery qualifications. The same protection is given to the other titles.

Protected function
Midwifery also has a ‘protected function’ in Article 45 which makes it a criminal offence (other than in an emergency or during training) for any person other than a registered midwife or a registered medical practitioner to ‘attend a woman in childbirth’. There is no equivalent protected function for nursing. The language used in Article 45 is taken directly from earlier Midwives Acts and it is clear from the few reported prosecutions that its meaning is the same as in the previous Acts, which is direct involvement in the delivery of a baby. There will be no change to the current protected function for midwifery.

@FTEngineerM

I can’t help wondering if this would even be an issue in professions with more males.

Yes it does.

‘Engineer’ isn’t protected either so the technician who comes and tinkers with your phone line can call themselves an engineer. The ‘gas engineer’ who comes and fits your smart meter. The term can be used by anyone. When in reality to become an engineer it takes years of education then years of ‘on the job’ experience, then you are an engineer. It’s getting lost and the meaning eroded.

'Lawyer' is also not a protected term and law is a profession is largely male-dominated.

OP I think it's a feminist issue despite there being many male nurses, because it's still viewed as a woman's job and traditionally has been one, which is why it was undervalued and not protected.

I'd add to this discussion - only to raise it, but not to derail - that there should be the same with "psychologist" and "counsellor". The example you gave about a relative being treated by a "nurse" is at least as pertinent when it comes to mental health care that people often have to seek privately. You don't even need a single day of training to call yourself a therapist, counsellor or coach. And while coaches shouldn't be doing deep mental health work, I've heard of enough who want to explore childhoods and have no bloody idea what they're doing. This is also an area primarily worked in by women and seen as not as serious as more "manly" professions by many. In fairness, as long as it's a free for all and any joker can set themselves up, it is somewhat deserved. The issue though is that people are being damaged by this lack of regulation.

Lawyer' is also not a protected term and law is a profession is largely male-dominated.

So can I set myself up as a lawyer tomorrow and practice? From what I understand solicitor and barrister are protected, so it's protected even though the name lawyer isn't. Maybe I've misunderstood that though? - I have nothing to do with lawyers!

To practice law you'd need to be licenced as either a barrister or a solicitor. You could call yourself a lawyer but you wouldn't have a licence to practice law.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepetant

To practice law you'd need to be licenced as either a barrister or a solicitor. You could call yourself a lawyer but you wouldn't have a licence to practice law.

That's true with nursing - you can't do the things that require you to be a registered nurse without being a registered nurse.

The issue the OP has is that lots of people call themselves "nurses" or employers employ them as "nurses" to do work that is somewhat akin to nursing but doesn't require them to be a registered nurse. OP thinks this diminishes women who are registered nurses and lowers the status and pay of the jobs they do by conflating the sorts of work carried out by non-registered nurses with the (generally significantly more skilled) work carried out by registered nurses.

We don't have quite the same situation in law because we don't as have a culture of people calling themselves lawyers to do work that doesn't actually require a license but is akin to some of the stuff lawyers do. There may be some similarities with the way some firms use paralegals or even admin staff without necessarily making it clear to the public that the aren't licensed. But it isn't as ubiquitous and the deception is normally hidden behind qualified. licensed, lawyers who front the operations and take responsibility for oversight.

Lawyer' is also not a protected term and law as a profession is largely male-dominated.
Ditto Accountant.

@CovidCorvid

Protected function Midwifery also has a ‘protected function’ in Article 45 which makes it a criminal offence (other than in an emergency or during training) for any person other than a registered midwife or a registered medical practitioner to ‘attend a woman in childbirth’. There is no equivalent protected function for nursing. The language used in Article 45 is taken directly from earlier Midwives Acts and it is clear from the few reported prosecutions that its meaning is the same as in the previous Acts, which is direct involvement in the delivery of a baby. There will be no change to the current protected function for midwifery.

Interesting, thank you. I was under the impression that protection of function wasn’t that widespread. I assume that means doulas aren’t allowed to be paid to support a woman on her own in childbirth?

There’s no goady-ness intended with my questions, BTW. I work in allied health and it comes up a bit. Also, I’m doing a PG Cert in medical ultrasound, and I know there’s some politics around sonography not being a protected/registerable profession.

I think it is a very important issue in relation to honesty and disingenuous representations rather than a feminist issue.

How many times on here have we seen a Dr state the terms HCA and nurse are interchangeable?

How often are we tended in hospital thinking it's by a nurse who also dispenses advice authoritatively? How often do we realise that person, in what most of us would call a nurse's uniform, is an HCA?

The title is important so to is absolute clarity about who is who in our hospitals. The colour uniforms need to become uniform and instantly recognisable re the role in every single hospital and practice

OP, I agree it's a feminist issue. Around 90% of UK nurses are women.

other professions face similar challenges but I don't think that means it's not worth talking about the status of nursing and whether that might be due to the overwhelmingly female workforce.

The senior roles in nursing and the NHS are disproportionately occupied by men.

@happylittlevegemites the interpretation is a bit of a grey area to be honest. In the past I believe it’s been interpreted quite strictly so yes a doula could have been at risk of prosecution if a midwife wasn’t there. However free birthing is legal and I think now there’s a more relaxed view that a woman can freebirth with the emotional support of a doula…..even if they are paying the doula. However if there’s any hint that the doula has made any claim that she can provide medical/midwifery support then she would be likely to face prosecution. I guess this would only really come to light if there’s a bad outcome.

I’m sure I commented on a previous thread about this that’s been deleted.
I’m fully prepared to be shot down but I genuinely, hand on heart, have never known or seen anyone be employed as a Nurse and given that title who wasn’t in fact a registered nurse.
In my trust we don’t even call people nursing assistants we have hcas or hcsws.
I’m based in Scotland so we have the national nhs uniform so it’s very clear to patients and colleagues who are the registered nurses and who are support staff.
Even in the community in nursing homes and agencies I’ve worked for I’ve never heard or seen anything different.
I absolutely agree in principle it should be a protected title but i just have no lived experience of people who shouldn’t be using it doing so and the colleagues I’ve asked said the same. We aren’t aware it’s an issue

is it convenient for some to deliberately fudge the titles I wonder?

I don’t think it’s necessarily the person at the end of the line.. the technicians fault, sometimes they may not understand. When recruiting the roles shouldn’t be called ‘engineers’ in the first place.

And yet, when an Engineer with the right qualifications is needed to sign off the risk assessment on an important project, the right person is usually found.

Because insurance wouldn’t pay out if it all went wrong and a technician has signed off on the plans. CEng is needed or I suppose a fellow. That’s why it’s so important that it’s protected, just like nurses who can do things that HCAs can’t. There comes responsibility and that needs recognising.

A lack of Protection of the title Nurse in UK law has led to
•Employers including the NHS to be able to employ those without registered nurse qualifications into registered nursing roles ie Staff Nurse and District Nurse.

Where have you seen this happen? As an ex- reg nurse myself and married to a Band 7 District Nurse, our Scottish NHS does not employ unregistered individuals into nursing roles. Registration is required to be shown before the interview and will be checked with the NMC.

@FlorenceNightshade there are definitely nursery nurses at my hospital working on the SCBU ward, so no nursing or medical qualifications. I’m sure plenty of parents think they’re actual nurses. The ward board has a list of babies names and then “nurse overseeing care” column, some babies have a nurse, some have a nursery nurse, some poor bugger had me as a student midwife on my 2nd day on placement on that ward as they were short staffed!

@Babdoc probably, that sounds about right 😃. Actually I think that’s a very good point, I had an interview with a rolling stock manufacturer, European company, and whilst there there was a clear distinction between roles. ‘Engineering’ we’re all qualified to masters degree and working towards charter ship and everyone on the production line had various titles but none ‘engineer’.

The world needs technicians and craftsmen just like it needs HCAs. A nice bit of structure.

@CovidCorvid yes but are these nursery nurses actually referring to themselves as nurses? Or is it just a lack of awareness/information given to parents etc.
I always identify myself as Florence, the nurse looking after you today or the nurse in charge of your mum/dad/whoever’s care if speaking to family. I would absolutely pull up any non registered nurse who said that but I’ve never heard it.

The legal profession is a good comparator.

Like Registered Nurse or Midwife the titles Solicitor and Chartered Legal Executive are protected (as are some others). There is some protection of function but it is limited.

All this results in is a multitude of titles designed to fudge the issue so you find yourself dealing with Litigation Executives, Legal Assistants, Immigration Lawyers, Civil Advocates, Conveyancers etc etc.

Given that Registered Nurse is protected I'm not sure changing the title nurse is needed. I do think better signalling of status is needed. Uniforms, badges and lanyards need to make it clear whether a practitioner is a RN a student nurse, a healthcare assistant or some other grade.

[quote FlorenceNightshade]@CovidCorvid yes but are these nursery nurses actually referring to themselves as nurses? Or is it just a lack of awareness/information given to parents etc.
I always identify myself as Florence, the nurse looking after you today or the nurse in charge of your mum/dad/whoever’s care if speaking to family. I would absolutely pull up any non registered nurse who said that but I’ve never heard it.[/quote]
They introduce themselves as “I’m the nursery nurse looking after x”. Plenty of parents seem to think “nursery” refers to the scbu location. And that they are a scbu based nurse. Ie qualified.

@CovidCorvid well it sounds to me that if staff are aware that roles are being misunderstood then it should be highlighted to management and more information provided to parents. Do all the staff wear the same uniform or scrubs?

@senua

Lawyer' is also not a protected term and law as a profession is largely male-dominated. Ditto Accountant.

But chartered accountant is protected. If someone signs off correspondence as "Jo Blogs Accountant" rather than "Jo Blogs Chartered Accountant" you know it is because they aren't a fully qualified Chartered Accountant.

Same as lots of people working towards Chartered Legal Executive Lawyer status (a protected title) will use titles like Litigation Executive or Family Lawyer. If they are qualified they will either use the full title or the abbreviation FCILEX

@RosesAndHellebores

I think it is a very important issue in relation to honesty and disingenuous representations rather than a feminist issue.

How many times on here have we seen a Dr state the terms HCA and nurse are interchangeable?

How often are we tended in hospital thinking it's by a nurse who also dispenses advice authoritatively? How often do we realise that person, in what most of us would call a nurse's uniform, is an HCA?

The title is important so to is absolute clarity about who is who in our hospitals. The colour uniforms need to become uniform and instantly recognisable re the role in every single hospital and practice

I absolutely agree, especially about the uniforms. And I have worked with many HCAs over the years who refer to themselves as a Nurse.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepetant

To practice law you'd need to be licenced as either a barrister or a solicitor. You could call yourself a lawyer but you wouldn't have a licence to practice law.

You can't work independently (other than as a McKenzie Friend) but you can work as an unqualified lawyer within a regulated law firm.

There are lots of firms who employ mainly unqualified staff often conducting cases in their own right and supervising others.

There are other protected titles too, Chartered Legal Executives can practice in their own right, I believe licensed conveyancers, patent attorneys and notaries can too.

[quote FlorenceNightshade]@CovidCorvid well it sounds to me that if staff are aware that roles are being misunderstood then it should be highlighted to management and more information provided to parents. Do all the staff wear the same uniform or scrubs?[/quote]
Scrubs most of the time. If they are in uniform it’s the same colour, though different epaulettes.