Long time friend seems to have cut me off

[Mattez]

NC for this. This has been preying on my mind a bit for the last few days and I’m a bit sad about it so please don’t pile on.

A very long time friend of mine appears to have cut me off, I suspect because she thinks my GC views are transphobic. This isn’t a discussion about gender which is why I’ve put it in here rather than the gender discussion board.

I never post anything on social media about my views for obvious reasons, but a couple of years ago, I commented on an article in The Pool which was about gender. I was very circumspect in what I posted (mainly that I was disappointed in the lack of balance in the article) but my friend saw it and messaged me telling me I should delete the post because ‘only transphobes hold those views and it’s not good’. I did delete it because I was quite taken aback and I have a lot of respect for her, but subsequently thought it was a bit overstepping of her.

Since then, it’s become clear that she has removed me from her social media and blocked me in group chats. It feels like I’ve been deleted just because she suspects I’m a transphobe (I am 100% not) but she hasn’t even tried to talk to me about it.

I don’t know what I want from this post really. I just wanted to tell someone about it because I’m quite sad about it. Is it worth approaching her about it or should I just leave it?

I'm sorry OP. I think a lot of posters here have had similar experiences. It hurts. I have one long distance friend who I have maintained a lively online chat friendship with for years. Our views on this have always been divergent but before things got heated in the political discourse we used to be able to discuss and disagree. Now I find her retreating more and more, doesn't message me much, and it makes me sad. I know it's because of this issue.

If we’d had a lovely discussion about it and fundamentally disagreed then it would be easier to understand. As it is, she seems to have decided what she thinks my views are and acted accordingly.

You’re right, I imagine a lot of women on these forums have had the same thing happen. It was just the first time it’s happened to me and I feel a bit shit about it.

That was meant to say ‘lively’ not ‘lovely’!

It happens and it's inevitable if you're not to censor and self-edit all the time.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4382551-Live-not-by-lies-Solzhenitsyn-no-tambourines-involved

I don't mean to sound blithe about saying this because it's painful and it represents a social death of part of our social identity. It's happened to so many of us and we grieve for those relationships and the fact that people have cast away what they've known about us for decades for an idolatry and ideology that they haven't even discussed with us.

Hi OP

Did you ask for your thread to be moved? It seems you have been sent to the naughty place despite your comment that you did not want it to be here.

I've lost several lifelong friends over my gender critical views. To be honest, I've sloughed them off quite blithely. If they're happy to end friendships over this, they're not the sort of friends I need or want. I am happy to discuss and debate until the cows come home, but sadly they're not (probably because their arguments are as flimsy as a paper airplane)

It's a shame. I haven't said anything to my oldest friend. She showed up last time with a protect trans rights badge on her bag and another badge with she/her on it.

I wanted to say how could you as a woman...why don't you try and protect women's rights.

But I didn't bother. I know people like that live in an echo chamber so I am taking a step back and not bothering with her much now. My opinion of her has changed.

OP. I think this has just happened to me. Honestly you need to hold your head up high. Be sure in your values. And think - hmmmmmm well that’s her choice. Maybe she will see the light. Maybe not. But it’s her life and choice. At least you have given her pause to think and as more amazing women have the courage to speak out the more we will understand where people’s values lie.

she hasn’t even tried to talk to me about it
Maybe she isn't as sure of herself as you think she is, and doesn't want to look stupid. Maybe she runs with "Be Kind" because it works for her socially. Either way, she's a coward.

Unless you aren't sure that she definitely blocked you, in which case make sure first. But this is no loss, this person might have thrown you under a bus for any number of reasons. The fact she's got her fingers in her ears singing la la la la isn't conflict avoidance, it's making her treatment of you easier for her to deal with. She's ghosted you, basically.

I'm sorry to hear this, OP.

I'm not sure I would pursue a friendship with someone who tried to police what I thought or spoke about.

@Helleofabore

Hi OP

Did you ask for your thread to be moved? It seems you have been sent to the naughty place despite your comment that you did not want it to be here.

We've had this before but this topic is currently showing both in Feminism Chat and S&G.

@AliceinBorderland

It's a shame. I haven't said anything to my oldest friend. She showed up last time with a protect trans rights badge on her bag and another badge with she/her on it.

I wanted to say how could you as a woman...why don't you try and protect women's rights.

But I didn't bother. I know people like that live in an echo chamber so I am taking a step back and not bothering with her much now. My opinion of her has changed.

Isn't this just the same thing though? Realising someone holds a different opinion than you, not actually discussing the issue but stepping back from the friendship. Why can't you be friends with someone who holds a different viewpoint?

Thank you for your kind comments. I just feel a bit upset about being deliberately misunderstood in this way and especially by someone whose opinion I genuinely cared about. We have known each other for about 20 years and she has been pretty influential in the past.

As it happens, I have another friend who was very much a feminist but has gone down the trans rights route. She is aware that our views differ but we don’t discuss it and tacitly agree to disagree which is fine.

I didn’t ask for the thread to be moved so I assume MNHQ have decided to move it despite what I said in my OP.

I was not only de-friended on FB but completely blocked for what I can only presume is because I objected to being referred to as cis. It wasn't even directed at them just a conversation on someone else's timeline.

I have to be cis though so their very young child can be trans.

I'm sorry OP, it's hard when you realise that a long standing friendship may not survive this. The fact that your friend didn't even discuss it with you is hurtful.

I am potentially worried about something similar happening with a dear friend I have known for 15 years, he is gay and I'm afraid to bring it up with him in case he thinks I'm attacking his lifestyle.

It hasn't come up naturally in conversation - I'm in Ireland where nobody talks about this at all. But if it does I will have to be honest. because I am not going to lie about this stuff. It's frustrating because this ideology is incredibly homophobic, but that's not how people perceive it.

Anyway, all we can do is know ourselves and remember that the truth matters.

Weirdly, this thread seems to be simultaneously in Feminism Chat, and Sex and Gender Discussions.

It's like MN just panic and don't know where to chuck these discussions . God forbid they leave them out in the mainstream boards.

@AliceinBorderland

It's a shame. I haven't said anything to my oldest friend. She showed up last time with a protect trans rights badge on her bag and another badge with she/her on it.

I wanted to say how could you as a woman...why don't you try and protect women's rights.

But I didn't bother. I know people like that live in an echo chamber so I am taking a step back and not bothering with her much now. My opinion of her has changed.

It's easy to lose respect for someone without critical thinking skills.

@CreepingDeath

Weirdly, this thread seems to be simultaneously in Feminism Chat, and Sex and Gender Discussions.

It's like MN just panic and don't know where to chuck these discussions . God forbid they leave them out in the mainstream boards.

Odd. I reported my thread to MN asking for it to be moved back to chat.

I'm worried this has happened to me. We briefly discussed Hadley Freeman who she said was awful. I felt I had to say that I largely agreed with HF. Not heard from her since. I feel sad and worried. However, I couldn't not say what I said and still respect myself.

It's so hard isn't it. I have friends that I don't doubt would cut me off if they knew how I felt. On the other hand, I have some friends who I suspect may be just at the edge of developing similar feelings, and I feel hopeful that if I tread carefully we may end up having common ground. But I'm terrified that if I speak up too soon or too strongly I'll lose that chance.

It's so fucking stupid. I mean, I'm very, very strongly pro-choice. But I have some friends who lean towards "pro-life" because of circumstances in their personal life that make it a highly emotive issue for them. I really, really disagree with their reasoning but I don't need to agree with someone of absolutely everything to count them as a friend. As long as someone doesn't hold absolutely hateful beliefs that genuinely hurt others, I can agree to disagree.

It's so fucking stupid. I mean, I'm very, very strongly pro-choice. But I have some friends who lean towards "pro-life" because of circumstances in their personal life that make it a highly emotive issue for them. I really, really disagree with their reasoning but I don't need to agree with someone of absolutely everything to count them as a friend. As long as someone doesn't hold absolutely hateful beliefs that genuinely hurt others, I can agree to disagree.

I know, it's so strange because on pretty much every other issue people can agree to disagree, I have friends with very different opinions on stuff (religion, vaccinations etc.). But with this there is actual fear of holding the 'wrong' opinion. I can't quite believe this is where we are in this day and age. It's so weird.

One of my lifelong friends 'came out' as non-binary on a small group chat recently. I didn't really know what kind of response she was expecting, but I felt that it would be dishonest of me not to also 'come out' as being gender critical, it would feel two-faced for me to act all congratulatory and supportive, while simultaneously being part of the gender critical community here and on Twitter. So I told her how I felt: that in a sense we're all 'non binary', because gender is just a social construct anyway and it's our biological sex that determines whether we are male or female.

The others on the group chat were not mega-supportive either. I don't think she really sees any of as real friends anymore, she doesn't make an effort with any of us, but spends a lot more time with her internet friends - who are presumably part of the same cult.

If she has responded this way, fuck her. Do you really need friends like that?

It's so fucking stupid. I mean, I'm very, very strongly pro-choice. But I have some friends who lean towards "pro-life" because of circumstances in their personal life that make it a highly emotive issue for them. I really, really disagree with their reasoning but I don't need to agree with someone of absolutely everything to count them as a friend. As long as someone doesn't hold absolutely hateful beliefs that genuinely hurt others, I can agree to disagree.

I think it's so personal though. Everyone has different boundaries and I do think sometimes for the sake of your sanity you can't be friends with someone who's political views clash with yours in a very personal way. I recently ended a friendship with someone who was very pro-life, because some of the things she were saying regularly on social media about abortion were destroying me - I had a late term abortion under very traumatic circumstances and I just couldn't handle her posting about how late term abortions were murder and she was standing up for the most vulnerable in our society. I couldn't cope at all.

I presume she's off somewhere slagging me off for doing that. What I'm trying to say is that you don't know what is happening in someone's life and how your political views may seem theoretical to you but may feel like a massive attack to someone else. "Genuinely hurtful" is such a subjective term.

Whataday198 that's a fair point. Sometimes you just stop being compatible with someone as a friend.