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Feminism: chat

Another woman killed during lockdown..and it's not murder.

5 replies

aweegc · 21/10/2021 20:40

Even though he gunned her down in her own bed.

Apparently he had mental health issues.

I'm so fed up of this. How many women had exacerbated mental health issues during lockdown? How many of us got irritate with our partners? How many women killed their partner during that time?

This man was a gun dealer, lied about his mental health issues on his gun license and now that he's responded to medication is refusing any therapy. And apparently shooting his wife at close range and letting their kids see, was manslaughter.

I know people have MH problems that are serious and that lockdown genuinely did exacerbate them in many cases. I'm not disputing that.,

The issue is all he has to say - like he did - is "I didn't mean it" and it's questionable if it was murder.

If MH problems + lockdown stress really resulted in increased killing in the home, then why wasn't there a massive rise in the number of women killing people, because its well-documented that the burden of basically everything fell to us.

Here's the article - its widely reported elsewhere

There's a suggestion that he should get a hybrid sentence. So secure mental health facility and when he's treated then mainstream prison. As with Sutcliffe (and I'm guessing others) doesn't this incentivise NOT getting better?! And anyway, if he's taking meds and they're working, then what's wrong with him being put in prison - especially as he has no interest in therapy? It's not like they're full of men with great mental health. I don't see any reason why he should get special treatment.

I do think prisons shouldn't be about rehabilitation, but as they're not, why special treatment tot him? As a prisoner he gets limited visits and food choices, recreational opportunities etc. In the hospital setting he's a patient, not a prisoner, so while he can't leave, it's a far easier life than prison.

OP posts:

FuckeryOmbudsman · 21/10/2021 21:38

Do hybrid sentences even exist?

Sutcliffe did nit have one. He was found guilty of murder and recievedfe sentence, when subsequently ill (MH) he was held in a secure hospital, and returned to prison when well.

Sentences for manslaughter can be as long as for murder (though I don't think anyone is on a whole life tariff for murder)

Irrespective of whether there has or hasn't been an increase in MH issues leading to different offending, the law surrounding intent and diminished responsibility in current form has been with us since the 1950s.

Whether or not any later treatment worked, it is the intent at the time of the crime that is key. Quite rightly, we don't punish ill people for actions they would not have carried out if capable of rational thought at the time


aweegc · 22/10/2021 07:23

I'm not sure I was suggesting that mental illness that directly causes someone to commit a crime should result in someone going directly to the prison population. But having a mental illness is extremely common amongst prisoners (sadly - most of them don't exactly come from emotionally and financially stable loving childhoods with great life opportunities and tip top mental health).

I came across "hybrid" sentences in my studies (forensic psych) a few years ago but they were not called that. And there was indeed the ethical issues involved of a) someone faking mental illness and b) someone being successfully treated for a condition and then remaining in a psychiatric facility.

Sutcliffe was not mentally ill at the time of the murders and assaults, but successfully claimed he was by mimicking the condition his wife had and he knew intimately after he'd been in prison before his trial.

Another woman dead though.

How many women were killing men during this lockdown? It seems that men are able to provide the poor mental health justification for killing ("I just snapped during lockdown") and I will fully admit there may be times when it's truly justified - and this case may be one - but when it's used every time, it's difficult to believe it. The unquestionable truth though is there's another dead woman, and in this case mother of traumatised children.

OP posts:

Babdoc · 22/10/2021 09:31

I take your point, OP, but women, when mentally ill, rarely become violent unless severely psychotic. We more commonly become depressed, and any violence tends to be expressed by self harming rather than attacking or killing others.
As for male offenders faking mental illness - we just have to rely on the professional skills of psychiatrists to differentiate them from the genuinely unwell. Not an easy task.
The law in the UK rightly prefers that the odd guilty person escapes justice rather than an innocent person (by dint of mental illness) is unfairly imprisoned rather than treated in a secure psychiatric facility.


Thelnebriati · 22/10/2021 14:27

I think there needs to be a change to the gun licensing laws, because it shouldn't be possible for individuals to lie on the application.


aweegc · 22/10/2021 17:06

The verdict is in and the judge seems to have been aware of what's going on, both at the individual and societal level.

Giving his verdict, Judge Levett said: "She was in her bed. She had her^ pyjamas on and she posed absolutely no threat to you whatsoever.^ “You thought that your wife, the victim of this fatal shooting, was not paying enough attention to you or your needs.

“She was carrying the entire burden of running that house whilst you took to bed."
Judge Levett commented on Hartshorne-Jones’ calm demeanour on the phone to police and noted that he refused to take anxiety medication prescribed to him at the time.

He also highlighted that since Mrs Hartshorne-Jones’ death 120 women had been killed, with seven women a month killed by current or former partners.
Handing him the 16 year sentence, Judge Levett said: “This is a tragic case. A killing ends one life and harms many others.
“I would like to express my sympathies to the family for their sad loss.”

Forensic psychiatrists said he was suffering from 'abnormality of mental function' so he's been sentenced to life (min 8 years) in a psychiatric hospital.

OP posts:
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