DD's very early introduction to the world being set up for the men.

[ellyoctober]

DD18 has just started a Civil Engineering course at university.

She's worked so hard to pursue this dream, abd I'm very proud of her but slightly concerned about the male orientated industry she's joining and what she'll encounter there.

Today she's texted me from a lab to say that she's too short to use a piece of equipment adequately and a lab assistant has had to scrat around to find her a stool so she's able to participate fully. She's 5'1".

Hopefully this will raise some awareness in the lab, but I'm not holding out hope for the future.

It's everywhere isn't it?

Surely she struggles with other areas of life due to that height ?

It is a sex based issue(not gender!) Try reading "Invisible Women" by Caroline Criado Perez!

Define tiny!

5ft 1 is around the 13th centile for female height according to a website I found. Small yes, but hardly exceptional. Out of a class of 30 that's ~4 women this height. Hardly 'tiny' IMO

And as a fellow Woman Engineer, congratulate your daughter from me.

Pic

My dd is an engineer and she loves it! Good on your dd for pursuing her dream.

May I suggest that she should perhaps share this with Caroline Cruiado Perez and you maybe buy her Invisible Woman for Christmas? 😉

newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/issues/invisible-women-confessions-of-a-pocket-addict-807610?utmcampaign=Issue&utmmcontent=viewinnbrowser&utmmedium=email&utmm_source=Invisible+Women

I'd second the recommendation for Invisible Women, and also Caroline Criado-Perez's newsletter (sign up here carolinecriadoperez.com) - she often covers issues like how working environments and 'unisex' uniforms and safety gear are unsuitable and sometimes positively unsafe for women, and how the tendency to think you can just 'shrink and pink' things like safety boots for women is just nonsense.

Your DD might find some of it helpful if she needs stats to back up her case if she needs to complain or ask for adjustments.

My ex was a surgeon and he was my height. 5ft 4ins.

They had to put the operating table lower for him but it was doing the other surgeons back in. They had to raise the table and get him a stool to stand on.

I can't see an issue tbh.

(cross posted with OhHolyJesus - good to see lots of CCP readers on here)

Am I suddenly invisible, also? 🤔🤣
I suggested Invisible Women first!

My 5'1" DD recently completed her MEng.
In her first term labs, she encountered drawing boards too high for her (for some unaccountable reason in this age of CAD they had to do some technical drawing). More helpfully, when she was struggling with a stiff bolt she was provided with the 'women's wrench' - its just a longer one.

Fortunately for her she's specialising in electronics, where small hands can be an advantage.

But yes, it's still a 'default male' world. Perhaps your DD will be one of the women who can help make practical changes, OP.

@Mum2021askingquestion

Define tiny!

5ft 1 is around the 13th centile for female height according to a website I found. Small yes, but hardly exceptional. Out of a class of 30 that's ~4 women this height. Hardly 'tiny' IMO

I think you need to be careful with extrapolation. A) People shrink when they get old B) the generations are getting taller.

So I reckon a 20yo who is 5ft1 is likely to be in a lower percentile than 13th if just compared with other women of a similar age.

As a fellow female civil engineer I feel her pain. The first time out on site I looked like a kid in my dad’s jacket as our company had no PPE in my size. I pointed out this is a H&S issue never mind just sexist and they have now thankfully fixed this.

Oh FFS.

Safety boots can be a problem. I know an archaeologist with size 3 feet who had trouble finding steel capped boots. (She specialised in stonework).

I agree that technical wear and equipment is not designed for women. I do an outdoor physical job and have to buy men's cargo trousers. I'm a size 12 and 5ft 8,and the smallest size is still too big and long. I saw 'women's' work wear advertised,so took a look. It had pink on it and unlike the men's version,had unreinforced knees,so it would last a few weeks if I was lucky.🙄 Great!
Dd1 has started a uni course that requires a lot of lab work ( microbiology). Her course has probably slightly more women than men. She is 5ft 6 and a size 10 and had to swap her lab coat for an extra small one. They were told that it is critical to have the correct size because rolled up sleeves heighten the chances of getting contaminated matter or chemicals on bare skin.
Good luck to your daughter. I worked in road construction in the 1990's and there were almost equal numbers of femal quantity surveyors as male,but no female civil engineers on any of the sites I was on.

You might have a point to some extent but I think it's pretty clear that for women in general 5ft 1 isn't abnormally tiny, it's just on the small side

Ok. Welcome to the best job in the world .
Also, don't judge the whole industry on university facilities. There is plenty of good safety equipment, including boots, in women's fit and size, it costs a bit more and might need hunting down but it does exist. I'm working on a job at the moment with a lot of female engineers on site, some of them enviably petite.

Our company is having a bit of a consultation on what they can do to improve women's participation, I've signed up for a focus group. On my list will be, protective gear that fits, single sex toilets and decent parent/carer flexibility for both genders. That's it really. The actual work is fine and women have a lot to offer in counteracting "blokethink".

Also I'm ancient I've been over 30 years in the industry, women are in the minority but it's not a tiny minority now- getting on for 30% of graduates I believe.

@SpringCrocus

Am I suddenly invisible, also? 🤔🤣 I suggested Invisible Women first!

Apologies @CaveMum, you mentioned it first!

@NotMeNoNo

Also I'm ancient I've been over 30 years in the industry, women are in the minority but it's not a tiny minority now- getting on for 30% of graduates I believe.

Civ Eng is for some reason a bit better than some of the other fields. Electronics has a particularly low ratio, which always seems odd to me.

@TeenMinusTests I'm being silly really, I just worry about her being isolated. She'll be fine and doing something she loves in an area the country has a skills gap in, apparently.

I read somewhere that most safety equipment (including seatbelts, IIRC) are designed for people with a height of 5'7. This makes sense to me, as I'm 5'7 and haven't experienced most of the issues that more petite women have reported. I believe they exist though!

Also engineering is very team based, it's hard to be isolated, even if she's one of only a few girls in the course. In the course of work you soon stop noticing who's male/female as you are just thinking about their role or what they are bringing to the project.