Domestic violence stats?

[Ringsender2]

Hi

I came across this item in the comments of a tweet about DV.
www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0123/1110351-7-myths-about-domestic-violence/

It's by a PhD candidate in an Irish uni.

It doesn't ring true to me but maybe that's just my received knowledge being inaccurate.

Does anyone know of other studies that assess comparable things and what their conclusions are?

TIA

So what was your gripe again?

Hardly a gripe - merely an observation that Ingala-Smith is hardly an obvious go-to for an accurate picture of DV.

And come on, I'm still waiting for your proof of her victim blaming...

See below from KIS's website - front page at the moment, for what would be intolerable victim blaming if any one dared to suggest a visa-versa. Grammatical errors in the quote are hers not mine.

Women are likely to have been abused by the man who killed them in the years (or sometimes months) before their deaths, men who are killed by female partners are very likely to have been abusing the women who killed them in the years of months before their deaths

It’s not victim blaming to point out that the statistics demonstrate that the vast majority of men killed by their female partner have history of abusing said partner. The evidence backs this up as I pointed out in my post quoting the stats from “See What You Made Me Do”.

Oh! Yes!. That victim blaming! You are quite right.

Oddly, the rest of the world calls that identifying the root cause of violence

The same is done when men kill women. Again you are putting words in her mouth - as that data is also collated by others, she simply reports on it.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49481998

Apologies that Dr Monckton Smith is also female. I'll try and find you a male researcher, shall I?

So, I will try again. How do you back up your assertion that Karen Ingala-Smith is dripping with bias. She is very dismissive of violence against males and very keen to victim blame.?

It's OK if you can't, if you want to say you were mistaken...

@sawdustformypony

So what was your gripe again?

Hardly a gripe - merely an observation that Ingala-Smith is hardly an obvious go-to for an accurate picture of DV.

And come on, I'm still waiting for your proof of her victim blaming...

See below from KIS's website - front page at the moment, for what would be intolerable victim blaming if any one dared to suggest a visa-versa. Grammatical errors in the quote are hers not mine.

Women are likely to have been abused by the man who killed them in the years (or sometimes months) before their deaths, men who are killed by female partners are very likely to have been abusing the women who killed them in the years of months before their deaths

As a man, what do you get out of trolling the feminist boards and telling women they are biased? If you can point to a large number of men being killed or seriously injured by their female partners, I might begin to believe that domestic abuse is perpetrated equally by the sexes. You won’t be able to get that information though because it doesn’t exist.

I don't think I am mistaken. But if you want a proper response, it'll take some time to consider and write out.

@sawdustformypony

I don't think I am mistaken. But if you want a proper response, it'll take some time to consider and write out.

Pardon me?

Yes, I do want a proper response. Why do you think I have asked you more than once?

Or do you think that your words are somehow 'the truth' by mere dint of you having typed them?

Back it up or retract it as the slanderous codswallop it is!

I really don’t think this rings true and the evidence is cherry picked. I actually thinks it’s an awful article.

I read research for a living and one study in 2007 does not make for a consensus, which is what she is basing her whole gender myths on. It also does not say what is meant by bidirectional. Whether this is women giving a slap back whilst being punched?

Women’s aid have very clear statistics on much harder data than a survey.

The ‘hard data’ are recorded and verified inflicted violence and deaths. These are overwhelmingly male perpetrated, whether this is against men or women.

This whole article should have been run by womens aid and some experts in research in this area. Ireland, like the UK has a terrible domestic violence record.

No doubt Mr Mansplain will tell us that Women’s Aid are also terribly biased and not to be trusted. Won’t someone think of the menz.

After linking to Jess Hill’s book above, I’d also recommend listening to her interviewed - that is what inspired me to buy her book.

She’s been on two podcasts that I also recommend - Crime Analyst and Real Crime Profile - talking about domestic abuse and coercive control:

Crime Analyst pt 1 - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/crime-analyst/id1545830333?i=1000533270602

Crime Analyst pt 2 - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/crime-analyst/id1545830333?i=1000534208177

Real Crime Profile pt 1 - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000486540063

Real Crime Profile pt 2 - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000487203375

Real Crime Profile pt 3 - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000487953345

Real Crime Profile pt 4 - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000488547406

Some of the cases they discuss are particularly upsetting so please be kind to yourself if you think you’ll find it triggering.

The evidence doesn’t back up the article. The hierarchy of evidence puts surveys that she has referred to at the bottom. It reads like a bad student essay, all bias. A good essay would be one that critically looked at the most credible evidence and weighed it up.

She speaks as if she is reporting on academic consensus of prevalence of male / female domestic abuse ratios - but she is certainly not - the one study she’s bothered to read is only a survey and is not corroborated in other evidence. And does not match at all with the hard evidence, which sadly is serious injury and deaths.

@sawdustformypony

I’d look to someone who has worked in this field for many years like Karen Ingala-Smith if you want a more accurate picture. But the one presented here is not accurate.

Karen Ingala-Smith interests are very...err...focused. I can't see how anyone could regards her as providing an accurate picture of domestic violence.

You think that her counting of women killed my men etc is inaccurate?

Most aren't reported in mainstream news, it's a lot of effort goes into it.

Are you doubting the figures? She names the women so anyone can check.

Maybe you mean she misses some? That would be understandable, I agree.

I'm sure you're not saying that any info about MVAWG is automatically dubious? That would seem to be extremely biased indeed.

@sawdustformypony

I should imagine that it is very difficult to get anything approaching reliable data for domestic violence.

It also seems abundantly clear to me that Karen Ingala-Smith is dripping with bias. She is very dismissive of violence against males and very keen to victim blame.

Do you have the stats for men killed by women they knew etc every year?

Just out of interest.

Interesting to hear that a woman focussed on incidents of men killing women under specific circs should instantly be seen as...
Really dodgy.

Without any interest in showing how reliable the data is.

An interesting approach.

Bottom line- any woman/ women orgs who gather, segment etc data to see data on MVAWG. Is really dodgy by definition.

You've been on here for a long time sawdust. You used to be more subtle.

What's changed?

ANYONE who believes that with het relationships with DV the SEVERITY of violence is the same both ways.

Is simply a liar.

Where are all the bodies of men being hidden?

I mean seriously?!

Oh hold on I know the answer.

Many governments are in thrall to and secretly controlled by an (international?) cabal of man hating women. Mainly angry feminists. This way the true picture of the epidemic of women and girls murdering men is suppressed (globally?).

These powerful women meet secretly at the same time as Bilderberg, which they use to draw attention elsewhere.

They meet at a location built inside a volcano with a tiny tube style system to get everyone around, that also contains nuclear missiles ready to launch to global targets. They all have white cats.

I should imagine that it is very difficult to get anything approaching reliable data for domestic violence. which is why evidence is weighed up according to reliability - and the ‘evidence’ quoted in the article is just about the weakest there is, surveys have a use in themselves but cannot be generalised. What did the author do? Not only generalise but present as myth busting ‘facts’!

However, as many people have pointed out, we do have ‘hard’ data in that deaths and serious hospitalised attacks are logged. We generally know to quite a high degree what sex of person killed another person. This is pretty undisputed data. Here it is from the recorded crime victims data in Ireland…

Homocide - There were 40 male victims (81.6%) and 9 female victims (18.4%) of homicide recorded in 2019 in Ireland, according to data recorded by An Garda Síochána. See Table 1.1 and Figure 1.1.

81.1% of victims of sexual violence recorded in 2019 were females, while 18.9% were males.

59.1% of victims of physical assault and related offences recorded in 2019 were males.

For detected homicide offences in 2018, 87.5% of suspected offenders were males.

98% of suspected offenders of detected sexual violence crimes reported in Ireland in 2018 were male, with just one in 50 suspected offenders being female.

80.5% of suspected offenders of detected physical assaults and related offences in 2018 were males.

www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rcvo/recordedcrimevictims2019andsuspectedoffenders2018/

So… there is the most robust data. Almost all violence and sexual offenses perpetrated by males.

RTE I am really disappointed in. What the hell has happened to journalism? Puffy opinion pieces basically being presented as facts.

No one actually believes that DV female on male has the same SEVERITY as the other way round.

Where are the bodies? Eh?

Anyone stating that has a huge and unsubtle agenda.

Thanks @NCBlossom

I will contact RTE and ask them to take the 'article' down (It's more like a weird cut and paste job hence the quotes).

Actually, I wonder if it was released by NUIG press office. It has the look of a PR. NUIG PO are v good at it, but they don't assess the scientific merit of the material. Their job is to raise NUIG's profile.

@NiceGerbil

No one actually believes that DV female on male has the same SEVERITY as the other way round.

Where are the bodies? Eh?

Anyone stating that has a huge and unsubtle agenda.

To totally dismiss this is wrong though.

Yes, the percentage of DV violence against females by males is significantly higher.

But it does happen the other way around and to dismiss it is not right.

You keep saying 'where are the bodies' - DV cases can manifest in so many different ways - controlling & coercive behaviour can impact on a persons life to a massive degree - both male and female as victims.

The 'bodies' - you could argue that the percentage of male suicide is significantly higher than female suicide. How many of those have been cause by DV issues?

We do have a number of male refuges or supported accommodation now in our area and court orders giving full parental control to the males for the children due to abusive female partner.

As I said above - yes it is the majority of the time that the female is the victim - but just remember there are other victims who often feel that they are invisible to society.

And also - the vast vast majority of males & females in society are not violent and can live perfectly happy together

No! I don't want to be told that I have to remember men when discussing the deaths of women, the violence women experience.

Why the hell should I?

I want the world to see the numbers of women killed by men every bloody week.

If you want the world to see some other statistic great! Go tell it to the mountain.

But maybe not on a forum dedicated to feminism, hey?

@Felix125 who is dismissing this? Start your own thread if you want to talk about the rarer, but still real DV against men.

This thread is in response to an article saying that it is a myth that men commit most DV. That it is 50/50 men and women. In the main public TV media organisation in Ireland. It’s quite a big deal to make that claim and has consequences.

Although I looked at the date, its 2020 - still with searchable google people are still going to look at this, see it’s from RTE, say it’s legitimate. It’s really irresponsible.

Oh fgs Felix.

I said that if the SEVERITY of DV is the same both ways then where are all the men's bodies?

Care to answer?

Rather than lecturing me about a load of other stuff as if I didn't already know...

And then going on to suggest that male suicide could often be caused by DV by a woman and therefore men probably have it worse?

Really excellent move if you want to show that you don't care at women at all and just cannot bear to see issues etc discussed full stop.

You didn't think oh that sort of thread I'll let them get on with it. Of course not.

Do you imagine the same happens on male dominated sites? On something about suicide? People (women) jumping in and saying yeah but yeah but what about women eh you CALLOUS CALLOUS people?

No evidence that suicide in men is due significantly to DV by women. Men more likely who are in fact, unmarried, alone and isolated. Men more likely if they have the means. Please look up evidence before quoting misinformation.

Which is the whole point of this thread. Misinformation by RTE in the extreme.

We are dealing with facts here. Supposedly.

@Felix125

I think you need to read the thread properly. These comments aren't about the idea that DV doesn't happen to men. They are about the article linked in the OP which misquotes research to give the impression that intimate partner violence is mainly about women hurting men.

No one is dismissing violence against men, they are simply outraged that a main stream media outlet is happy to be involved in a smoke screen to dismiss violence against women.

Hey, can we cool things down please?

@NumberTheory, thank you for explaining the point of the thread.

@sawdustformypony you were right that KIS isn't the right source for the stats I'm looking for for this particular request. However, you gave yourself away by the way you described her amazing and difficult work.

Anyway, was too busy at work today to work out who in RTE to email, but will get onto it.

KIS project is called counting dead women.

Specifically women killed by men they have or had some kind of relationship with. Friends, exes, current partners etc.

I mean to say oh well she's biased and not about DV generally. Ignore it because she is clear in what is being counted. Women killed by men under certain circs. And that in and of itself means she is biased :/