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Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

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Original poster

Article 81 women killed in 28 weeks

27 replies

OhDear2200 · 02/10/2021 23:19

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/02/the-81-women-killed-in-28-weeks

How horrifically depressing.

Men sort your shit out.

OP posts:

ThisIsStartingToBoreMe · 02/10/2021 23:28

Am I imagining things or is it getting worse?

Tealightsandd · 02/10/2021 23:33

Something like 70% of murdered women were killed at home.

Improved safety on the streets is very important but hopefully we'll also see better measures aimed at tackling DV too.

RNBrie · 02/10/2021 23:37

Karen Ingala Smith has been counting them since 2012 - kareningalasmith.com/ pretty sure that's where The Guardian and The Times have got their stats.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/10/2021 13:48

@ThisIsStartingToBoreMe

Am I imagining things or is it getting worse?

Misogyny is being relegitimized. Not that I think these attitudes ever truly went away, they were always simmering under the surface. But there are now open platforms where men who hate women are far more easily able to find each other, and to buoy each other up and give credence to their hate.

Dehumanizing women, calling us 'bodies with vaginas', is also contributing toward normalizing and excusing misogyny. As is the concerted erasure of women - and it is erasure: men are not 'ejaculators' but women are 'cervix-havers' - and 'adult human female' is now being seen as provocative if not hate speech. If we can't define our sex, we can't legislate for our protection.

All these anti-women discourses swirling around our society at present have their part to play. And this isn't only the more extreme end of that spectrum such as the 'manosphere'. It's all - all of it - unconscionable and inexcusable.

Dbank · 03/10/2021 13:52

Just for balance, how many men have been killed in the same time period?

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/10/2021 13:56

@Dbank

Just for balance, how many men have been killed in the same time period?

Check out the pie chart on this link. There is no 'balance'.

kareningalasmith.com/

Waitwhat23 · 03/10/2021 14:12

@MarieIVanArkleStinks spot on posts

MardyBoudoir · 03/10/2021 14:18

I feel so sad looking at their faces.

Dbank · 03/10/2021 14:20

I really mean the number of men killed by men, which I believe is about three time higher than the number of women killed by men.

Making it a gender issue is missing the point and ignores 75% of the victims.
Men killing people is what we should be outraged about.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 03/10/2021 14:35

@Dbank

I really mean the number of men killed by men, which I believe is about three time higher than the number of women killed by men.

Making it a gender issue is missing the point and ignores 75% of the victims.
Men killing people is what we should be outraged about.

Look at the pie chart. It's there! Unless it was a separate point you were wanting to make.

These statistics don't lie. I, and other women who choose to challenge this, are categorically not making this a gender issue.

It IS a gender - or rather sex-based - issue.

PaleGreenGhost · 03/10/2021 14:39

More women are killed at home. I assume because it is easier there? Although it seems to be relatively easy anyway.

But I'd be interested to know how the men who go on to commit "domestic" murders behave at other times, out in public or at work, for instance?

Especially as there is a known link between DV and terrorism (terrorists of all ideologies usually have DV backgrounds). Especially as offenders escalate in known patterns (like Couzens, flashing, pornograohy, prostitutes etc).

Would adopting a zero tolerance on more minor misogyny affect the rate of males who go on to kill?

Tealightsandd · 03/10/2021 14:42

More women are killed at home. I assume because it is easier there? Although it seems to be relatively easy anyway.

It's linked to the public health housing emergency.

Artichokeleaves · 03/10/2021 14:42

@Dbank

I really mean the number of men killed by men, which I believe is about three time higher than the number of women killed by men.

Making it a gender issue is missing the point and ignores 75% of the victims.
Men killing people is what we should be outraged about.

It really is ok to talk about women as a group and to focus only on their issues.

The reality is that the massive, massive majority of intimate homicides are male on female with female victims, it is massively disproportionate and this reflects a massive problem with misogyny in the UK.

Male on male homicides aren't part of this discussion. It is ok to just talk about women sometimes.

Dbank · 03/10/2021 15:13

The two issues are rather related.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/10/2021 15:40

@Dbank

The two issues are rather related.

Yes. Common link is indeed men, violent men.

We choose to discuss the female victims. That's what we focus on because it is what we mean when we say 'intimate homicides' or any kind of domestic violence.

If you don't like it maybe start a thread of your own or just don't read posts where women are discussing things women want to discuss.

WomaninBoots · 03/10/2021 15:58

The reasons and ways that men are killed by men are very different to the reasons and ways that women are killed by men. Male pattern violence is indeed at the root of both but discussion of both together us not going to elucidate good solutions to either. Since this is a feminist board, by my reckoning that makes it pretty damn ok to ignore what men get up to between themselves and focus on male-perpetrated harm to women.

K? K.

RedDogsBeg · 03/10/2021 15:59

@Dbank

I really mean the number of men killed by men, which I believe is about three time higher than the number of women killed by men.

Making it a gender issue is missing the point and ignores 75% of the victims.
Men killing people is what we should be outraged about.

Don't presume to tell me what I should be outraged about.

You want to be outraged about violent men killing other men, you do so and take that outrage to the men and see what you can do about sorting it out.

This is about male violence against women, that's what we are discussing and focusing on your attempts to make it about men killed by men are not wanted. This is a feminist forum the focus is on women.

WomaninBoots · 03/10/2021 16:06

Also that pie chart in the link above shows the situation very clearly. It also highlights the women killing men had generally been abused by the man for months or years leading up to her killing him. And when a man kills a woman he has been abusing her for months and years prior. So the root cause of the vast majority of domestic homicide is male abuse... even if the male is the ones who ends up dead. I found that interesting as it isn't something I had considered before.

TheWeeDonkey · 03/10/2021 16:06

Think is, this is a man problem. Men need to sort their shit out, but that means a lot of introspection and that is something they don't want to do, not when there are so many squirrels around

Artichokeleaves · 03/10/2021 16:08

this is a man problem

It is.

I really can't think of anything more women can do than make this message heard and force men, particularly the powerful men who get most upset about 'not all men' to face it and do something about it.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 03/10/2021 16:08

Dare we even raise the question, how many of those women assailants were, well, you know, women?

Silly me...

topcat2014 · 03/10/2021 16:18

8% are killed by their SONS! According to the Times today

Waitwhat23 · 03/10/2021 16:30

@topcat2014

8% are killed by their SONS! According to the Times today

If you look at the lists on the Counting Dead Woman website, the same words come up again and again - son, husband, boyfriend, partner....

More men are killed in general. But generally because of a fight by someone in the street for example. Women are often killed by their relatives or loved ones, after co-ersive control and domestic violence (some who take advantage of the 'rough sex' defence). That's why the awful newspaper narrative of 'a lovely family man who just snapped' is such crap.

Thelnebriati · 03/10/2021 16:44

''All lives matter'', NAMALT and 'women do it too' are not useful responses to discussions about male violence.

How bad do things have to get before men stop getting defensive about their reputation and do something to restore it?

RedDogsBeg · 03/10/2021 16:48

How bad do things have to get before men stop getting defensive about their reputation and do something to restore it?

Quite. The response that men kill men too is hardly a response at all is it.

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