Violence against women should be treated as seriously as terrorism

[TonyThreePies]

Police chiefs should treat violence against women as seriously as terrorism and stop ditching an ‘eye-water- ing’ number of crimes, a watchdog has said.

A report by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services yesterday highlighted how three out of four domestic abuse cases are closed early without anyone being charged.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9999763/Violence-against-women-treated-seriously-TERRORISM-watchdog-says.html I couldn't find a non-DM link though.

About time too. But will it happen? Probably not.

[TonyThreePies]

The number of investigations into sex attacks on women shelved due to ‘evidential difficulties’ also tripled from 4,326 cases in 2014/15 to 13,395 in 2019/20.

Those poor women. I hope there is justice to come for those who follow, because until we deal with male violence these attacks will continue. So how do we? How do we flip it so the men are held accountable?

[gailforce1]

I have to say I don't understand why this is not trending on MN.
Absolutely horrifying but does no one care?

[catzwhiskas]

Possibly because we have been flagging the issue up for years. We know this is happening and it’s the biggest issue for us. There are many reports and consultations that have been ignored .we are still speaking out .

[ColorMagicBarbie]

Just skimmed first few pages of comments and most don't seem very in favour:

As a woman I would say it works two ways, some men are in violent relationships from women. Because of their upbringing not to strike a woman they suffer in silence, as do women, A law to protect both is the best way forward.

Around three times more men are murdered annually in the UK as the number of women. Seeing the number of women in the UK is, statistically speaking, equal to that of men when is this vast discrepancy going to be addressed to create equality?

If all crime would be reported like nagging all day psychological abuse and attacks against men also not letting them see his children the statistic will be very different showing women are violent. lots of women terrorize the family including children. i am female saying this

Should be equal treatment for both men and people.

What is so special about women ?? Violence of ANY kind , abainst anybody should be taken more seriously

We never report our aggressive wives raising their hand to us. We put it down to the wrong time of the month.

have you ever listened what men have to tell about abusive women. women abuse men having mental breakdown as an result. Also they can be very violent . stop presenting women as the only victims. it just makes me sick. i am female.

Violence shouldn't be tolerated full stop. Gender shouldn't come into it.

Then so should violence against men. Many men have been harmed by their female partners.

If it's against men, women and the police just snigger and look away.

I don't disagree but then so should violence against men ... otherwise the women perpetrators are getting off with lighter sentences.

Equality doesn't mean discounting violence against men.

you haven t meet my sister in law. she terrorizes the whole family

So violence against men is OK then is it?

Hopefully soon violence against men will be as treated as seriously as violence against women. It would be nice to have this level of equality in my lifetime.

What about the men this happens to?? Oh yes that's it the police don't respond to it whatsoever and nothing ever gets done.

Etc, etc, etc.

[adultchildofalcoholicparents]

Around three times more men are murdered annually in the UK as the number of women.

By men.

It's almost impossible to discuss because you end up wading through NAMALT and 'whataboutery' to the point where no useful discussion can be conducted.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

By men

And?

If a young black/gay/etc male is killed in a homophobic or racist attack you think it's less important if his killer was male?

I just don't understand that argument which always seems to be the first one wheeled out. It seems a bit victim blamey to dismiss the seriousness because they shared the sex of their killer.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

Sorting male violence should absolutely be the priority but it's disingenuous to pretend that women suffer the most from it. The statistics show it couldn't be further from the truth!

[PlanDeRaccordement]

Police chiefs should treat violence against women as seriously as terrorism

Well, I don’t agree with this. Terrorism is more serious than inter-personal violence because it usually involves killing many innocent people in order to overthrow a government. Secondly, I don’t think women should be perceived as the victim class to violence when it affects men, women and children. All violence should be treated more seriously. Just not conflated with terrorism or in a way that assumes women are the only or even primary victims.

[Mandalordeloris]

@TonyThreePies

The number of investigations into sex attacks on women shelved due to ‘evidential difficulties’ also tripled from 4,326 cases in 2014/15 to 13,395 in 2019/20.

Those poor women. I hope there is justice to come for those who follow, because until we deal with male violence these attacks will continue. So how do we? How do we flip it so the men are held accountable?

I would also imagine that the numbers of offences actually reported have increased by the same proportion. So the percentage of unsolved crimes probably hasn't changed.

Evidential difficulties also covers when the victim themselves does not want to provide evidence.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

Well, I don’t agree with this. Terrorism is more serious than inter-personal violence because it usually involves killing many innocent people in order to overthrow a government. Secondly, I don’t think women should be perceived as the victim class to violence when it affects men, women and children. All violence should be treated more seriously. Just not conflated with terrorism or in a way that assumes women are the only or even primary victims.

Exactly.

Nothing wrong with pointing out that men are the main offenders and focusing on that. What causes people to switch off is when it's suggested that victims of a particular sex/ethnicity are less important, especially when those victims actually suffer significantly less violence. It shifts the focus away from stopping violent men and instead focuses on the hierarchy of victimhood.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

Doh, I meant 'significantly more' violence. It's the victims being prioritised as 'more important' that seem to experience less.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

The number of investigations into sex attacks on women shelved due to ‘evidential difficulties’ also tripled from 4,326 cases in 2014/15 to 13,395 in 2019/20.

Also this sounds like an accrual, not a per year total. As in the cases shelved in 2014/2015 were at 4,326 and have since accrued to 13,395 in 2019/20. So the cases counted in 2014/2015 were counted again in 2019/20 because they are still shelved....

If it had said the number of “new investigations” then it would likely be a per year total.

[adultchildofalcoholicparents]

Terrorism is more serious than inter-personal violence because it usually involves killing many innocent people in order to overthrow a government.

Domestic abuse as terrorism www.jstor.org/stable/23352294

Joan Smith has written various books and articles about the link between VAWG and terrorism

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/05/many-terrorists-abuse-women-research-extremist-attackers-violent-misogyny

London Metropolitan discussion links:www.londonmet.ac.uk/news/articles/exploring-the-links-between-extremism-and-violence-against-women/

[PickUpAPepper]

Good grief, am I half way to agreeing with ColorMagicBarbie on something? If it was publicly acknowledged everywhere that men are more violent than women, and that male violent tendencies are a serious social problem that needs addressing, I’d be happy with that. The trouble women have often found is that the full extent of male violence is often ignored, as the female experience of it is ignored. It is also worth remembering that violence against girls and women is escalating according to figures.

[OvaHere]

[quote adultchildofalcoholicparents]Terrorism is more serious than inter-personal violence because it usually involves killing many innocent people in order to overthrow a government.

Domestic abuse as terrorism www.jstor.org/stable/23352294

Joan Smith has written various books and articles about the link between VAWG and terrorism

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/05/many-terrorists-abuse-women-research-extremist-attackers-violent-misogyny

London Metropolitan discussion links:www.londonmet.ac.uk/news/articles/exploring-the-links-between-extremism-and-violence-against-women/[/quote]
Yes. Was just going to mention about the links between DV and extremism/terrorism.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

@PickUpAPepper

Good grief, am I half way to agreeing with ColorMagicBarbie on something? If it was publicly acknowledged everywhere that men are more violent than women, and that male violent tendencies are a serious social problem that needs addressing, I’d be happy with that. The trouble women have often found is that the full extent of male violence is often ignored, as the female experience of it is ignored. It is also worth remembering that violence against girls and women is escalating according to figures.

I certainly didn't intend to minimise VAW, but I think the focus should be more on the perpetrators and less on the victims. I feel that doing the latter just allows men to say "oh, well at least you don't have it as bad as us". Or at least try and emphasise the full scale of it. When people talk about '100 women a year' it frankly doesn't sound like very many to me, no matter how horrible each individual case may be.

[PickAChew]

Just double checking that this is feminism chat. Blimey.

[Slythermum]

@gailforce1

I have to say I don't understand why this is not trending on MN.
Absolutely horrifying but does no one care?

Women have been socialised to center and apologise for men constantly forever. Even when they kill us.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

I’m not so sure Slyther. I don’t see people apologising much for murderers. On the other hand, women get away with slapping men all the time. It’s a common trope in romcoms which are mainly watched by women and nobody bats an eye. Of course it’s not as bad as murder but it’s much more common.

[ColorMagicBarbie]

Not to minimise spousal murder but it does seem like 100 women get killed but you have another 100 million suffering vicariously. I don’t see men do this. If they’re not the one getting stabbed they don’t tend to see themselves as a victim.

I’m not saying this to dismiss the seriousness of it. I just think that the fundamental difference between the way men/women regard these things is a factor in men not taking violence seriously enough. They get attacked like 4x more and are over 70% of murder victims but you never hear them complaining about it. I think this is where we need to delve deeper than just looking at sex and look instead at other demographics like race, socioeconomics, age, etc.

[PickAChew]

@ColorMagicBarbie

I’m not so sure Slyther. I don’t see people apologising much for murderers. On the other hand, women get away with slapping men all the time. It’s a common trope in romcoms which are mainly watched by women and nobody bats an eye. Of course it’s not as bad as murder but it’s much more common.

Slapping and murder absolutely comparable. If course!

[Charley50]

I think the point is that most of the murders and attacks against women are people they are in supposedly 'loving' relationships with, or at least dating. Men get murdered in pub fights or gang attacks by strangers, or at least rival in the case of gangs, not by the people who should be cherishing them. And there are initiatives specifically to address gang crime and its causes.

It has seemingly become acceptable for men violently abuse or even kill (rough sex defence still being used) your partner, and the police and CPS have been found to be basically turning a blind eye to it.

[TonyThreePies]

A woman slapping a man is of course not as bad as murder? Jesus, I've heard it all now.
I work with a Forensic Psychologist who researches domestic violence. Yes, she has said that there are many many cases of DV against men by women. There, I've said it, happy now? But she has also said that the cases against women are far physically worse because men are bigger and stronger than women. A woman is unlikely to be able to beat her partner to a pulp and break their bones in the same way a man could to a woman. It probably does happen, but is way far from the norm. Is that better in redressing the balance?
Yes, men do also murder men but as said upthread, the dynamics are different than a woman at home being beaten by the person who is supposed to care for them. Who are often on the back foot financially and who have probably had their self-esteem eroded over time - both leaving them feeling like they can't escape. There are hundreds of posts on MN of exactly this scenario.
Yes - men are also victims of male violence. Enough of the whataboutery. Women are being seriously abused and killed, at home, in front of their children. Can we not talk about this on MN of all places?

[Pineapplepyjamas]

1. Yes, we should not lose sight of the perpetrators. Male violence is the problem here. Although, if that was the headline, people would complain that “not all men…”.
   

2. We should also be victim-focused to ensure their needs are met. Violence against women and girls is a specific issue and specific measures need to be taken to tackle it. Rape. Street harassment. Domestic abuse. Murders by spouses or during sex. These are all types of violence that disproportionately affect women.

3. Tackling “all violence” would be unhelpful. Rather akin to wishing for world peace. Obviously though, police and government will have initiatives to tackle other types of crime. I hope they will be looking at specific initiatives to help protect men from other violent men. And I hope that will be intersectional and look at other characteristics too. Because being specific is important.

4. Maybe women feel these crimes “vicariously” and “complain about it” because so often it comes from a supposedly loving relationship. Or it interrupts your life several times per week (e.g. street harassment or being scared to walk home after dark). Men do discuss violence regularly though - listen to any rap music.

If you are particularly concerned about male victims, there are some great groups out there that focus on supporting them. I’d suggest you put your time into supporting those groups, rather than moaning about initiatives to support women and girls.

Men need support too, because sex-based issues shape men’s and women’s lives. Differently. In ways that need to be tackled specifically. Women are much more likely to victims. Men are much more likely to be perpetrators.

[PickAChew]

@Charley50

I think the point is that most of the murders and attacks against women are people they are in supposedly 'loving' relationships with, or at least dating. Men get murdered in pub fights or gang attacks by strangers, or at least rival in the case of gangs, not by the people who should be cherishing them. And there are initiatives specifically to address gang crime and its causes.

It has seemingly become acceptable for men violently abuse or even kill (rough sex defence still being used) your partner, and the police and CPS have been found to be basically turning a blind eye to it.

At last! Someone gets it!