Man held by police after pregnant wife falls to her death from Arthur’s Seat in Edinburgh

[CallMeRisley]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/04/man-held-newlywed-bride-fell-death-arthurs-seat-honeymoon/

Terrible story, RIP Fawziyah.

@Orgasmagorical

I was just coming in to start a thread about this report on the BBC. "Man charged with murder over Arthur's Seat fall".

So often they report women being "raped" or "sexually assaulted" but this man has been charged with Fawziyah Javed's murder but they're not putting fall in inverted commas.

Is there a reason for this, does anyone know?

There's no need for inverted commas as there is no debate over the fact that she fell to her death. Any question would be over whether the fall was accidental or deliberate (ie murder).

Because rape and sexual assualt are both crimes and the press can prejudice an ongoing case if these are reported as facts before someone has been convicted. A fall is just a neutral matter of fact so doesn't need to be reported as a quote.

That's my point, user, he's been charged with murder so how could her fall have been accidental?

I do see what you mean but it's the disparity between this report and so many of the rape or sexual assaults ones that always seem to have inverted commas, as if the victims' stories are in doubt.

Cross posted, NotDavid, ah, I see what you mean. I'm looking at it from a more personal point of view than that of the law

@Orgasmagorical I'm sorry, I don't understand your point. You asked why the word fall wasn't put in inverted commas. She has fallen, there is no debate about that fact, therefore no need for inverted commas.

If the newspaper were to refer to her murder, they would probably need to put that in inverted commas, until someone is convicted, or other incontravertable evidence comes to light.

Sorry, user, my point is that so often I see "rape" and "sexual assault" as if they are in doubt (that's the way I read it anyway). The headline for this case is saying fall but because he has been charged with her murder I am thinking fall should be in inverted commas because it's doubtful that she fell without any help.

But as I said to NotDavid I wasn't looking at it from a legal point of view, more a how dare they doubt one and not the other POV.

Does that make any more sense? I know what I mean!

I think I see what you mean - you are thinking fall is a synonym for accidental fall so should be in quotes? Whereas NotDavid and I are saying the fall is the consequence of what happened, regardless of whether it was an accident or she was pushed.

I suppose it is like referring to her death. The paper don't need to put this in inverted commas because there is no doubt that she has died, regardless of the cause.

"Rape" and "sexual assault" isn't in quotation marks to denote doubt, it is in quotation marks to indicate it is a quote from somewhere else. This would be because it is an allegation, and the fact of it are yet known, whereas a fall is a fact, and therefore not open to dispute and subject to a trial.

user I'm thinking it wasn't a fall because she was pushed, or whatever was done to her, but I see what you mean now, thank you.

Orlando, this is where I get confused because I've seen other news reports that say eg "Police are looking for an utter scumbag after a woman was raped" - no inverted commas and it hadn't long happened so is obviously yet to be proven in court.

I'm sorry, I should have started another thread rather than derailing this one.

Newspapers always use fall when referring to what usually turn out to be suicides from motorway bridges.
There are always comments about it being a jump and not a fall.
I think it's just a term newspapers use so they can't be accused of speculation.

English doesn't have two different words for accidental falls and falls caused by a push. Perhaps we should. I am chilled and heartbroken by imagining what went through that young woman's mind in her last moments on earth.

The betrayal!

I know, Newly, it's just horrific.

deydo I've had to stop looking at comments on our local newspaper site, people can be so cruel and heartless. It's so unnecessary.

You don't have to go that far back One BigMother

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57916004.amp

The policeman who pulled Lu Na out of the water said she was clearly visible a few feet from the boat.

@Orgasmagorical

user I'm thinking it wasn't a fall because she was pushed, or whatever was done to her, but I see what you mean now, thank you.

Orlando, this is where I get confused because I've seen other news reports that say eg "Police are looking for an utter scumbag after a woman was raped" - no inverted commas and it hadn't long happened so is obviously yet to be proven in court.

I'm sorry, I should have started another thread rather than derailing this one.

I wonder if that's because they're not talking about a particular suspect, so they don't have to be so clear that it's an allegation.

If they mention a specific person who's been arrested, then I think they'd have to put it in inverted commas to avoid prejudicing any future trial or defaming the accused (if he's later found innocent)

This doesn't automatically have to have been a 'forced marriage', poor woman may well have been happy and duped into falling in love with this man who probably had reasons other than love to marry her.

The case it really reminds me of is Shrien and Anni Dewani, where the bride just looked so besotted with her husband and he had her killed for her money.

Whatever the reason, a woman has now had her life cut short. I hope she gets justice.

That makes sense, Pinklioness, thank you.