9 charts that show the scale of violence against women in England and Wales 6 months on from Sarah Everard’s murder

[ScreamingMeMe]

www.nationalworld.com/news/crime/sarah-everard-death-9-charts-that-show-the-scale-of-violence-against-women-in-england-and-wales-6-months-on-from-murder-3369710?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

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it’s the suppression of instinct that causes men not to fight rather than dysfunction occurring when they do

Bollocks.

Well, it’s funny how violence tends to become more likely when inhibitions are relaxed - e.g. when drunk.

Just what kind of behaviour and lives do you want to see Barbie? We are a cooperative species that lives in groups. Our general trend, with many reversals, has been towards larger groups to create greater prosperity and greater achievements. Aggression between groups is hardly unheard of among other group-living animals. Continual violence between members of what is supposed to be one group is. If it continues, you don’t have a group, capable of cooperative endeavours: you just have a bunch of individuals clawing at each other and revenge escalates. Of course the U.K. claiming to be one group is problematic, but loss of law and order and replacement of it by a total freedom to violence is not good for most people. Generally when it happens the population drops, possibly exponentially. Look up such events as the World Wars in Europe; the collapse of the Roman Empire; the Bronze Age collapse, when cities were eradicated for 100 years in the Near East. Or of course, Yemen and Syria more recently. Given our unprecedented population levels, the bloodbath would be intense, and once started now it wouldn’t stop until no two males came into contact I expect. Do you really fancy your luck, surviving in such a world? What world would be left, is there nothing you value in peace, safety and security?

Aggression between groups is hardly unheard of among other group-living animals. Continual violence between members of what is supposed to be one group is.

Yeah, defo not as if loads of male animals fight for dominance, sometimes to the point of mortal injury.

@ColorMagicBarbie

Something is going deeply wrong with the development of men who can't control their behaviour and are driven to violence by their hormones. That's what needs addressing. How we as a society bring up boys and what they are socialised into as men.

No doubt many of these men have issues, and I’d wager that there’s a proven link between alcohol/drug/trauma/etc and violent behaviour. It’s just that you can’t control every single person. For every violent act there were plenty more that almost happened.

However, I’m not sure violence is particularly unnatural, unpleasant as it is. We’re alone in the animal kingdom with our concepts of morality and it’s the suppression of instinct that causes men not to fight rather than dysfunction occurring when they do IMO. I feel a lot of people don’t see through the veneer of daily life and the covid situation really drove that home for me as many people seemed a bit confounded by the fact we weren’t in control of it.

Ok, by your reckoning, society has put in place laws and norms for us to live that men are biologically more challenged to adhere to. Rather than simply accepting that men are less likely to be able to keep to these laws, why do we not put in place further laws that control men’s behaviour or limit the impact. For example a curfew on men after dark, men banned from drinking alcohol, men needing to provide absolute proof informed consent as given in sexual assault cases and without that they are guilty by default. Most of these laws get applied to women only in some countries- so not that extreme eh? But…never will happen..why? Men’s entitlement and power

What a hopeless view of life Barbie.

Yes, our concept of morality and ability to suppress instinct is indeed what has given us the upper hand in the animal kingdom - what with us otherwise being fairly weak creatures. Personally, I think we're doing OK, but can do better - particularly the males who are excessively violent.

Funnily enough, I manage to suppress my instinct to breed with the strongest male when I'm fertile, to eat my kids when scared, I've kept hold of a hot pot that was burning me so I could put it down rather than drop it and spill boiling liquid over myself and my kid etc. I think with some cultural change men can probably manage not to have a punch up after a couple of beers (after all, most of them already manage it), and to treat women and children (and other men) as the fully formed humans they are, rather than props in a one man show of their life (this one is much more common in my experience)

And most women nowadays strongly disagree with feminist attitudes. Not the equality parts but specifically the view on men. It's always mentioned in the surveys.

@ColorMagicBarbie

And most women nowadays strongly disagree with feminist attitudes. Not the equality parts but specifically the view on men. It's always mentioned in the surveys.

Just for a change, any chance of an example of these surveys that you mention? There must be lots you can reference if women "always" strongly disagree with feminist's attitudes to men.

more than 37,000 women killed compared to 2,500 men. 37,000.

And already we're into the minimising, reframing and misandry for talking about it in insufficiently male-sensitive terms.

Spot the problem.

@ColorMagicBarbie

Not all men are rapists and murderers obviously but MOST men will certainly have some level of superiority when it comes to women. It's engrained.

Even the decent ones.

more than 37,000 women killed compared to 2,500 men. 37,000.

But men are 70% of homicide victims, so that's clearly untrue unless you are cherry picking specific types.

Rapes, sorry. 37,094 rapes against females aged 16 or over. That was 14 times more than the number involving male victims – 2,577.

274 women killed through domestic abuse in England and Wales. More than four out of five female domestic homicide victims (218 of them) were killed by current or former partners. All but four of those 218 were killed by men.

My mistake.

It would be nice to be able to talk about the issues here for women on a women's rights forum.

It would be nice to be able to talk about the issues here for women on a women's rights forum.

We are talking about it. What you actually mean is that it would be nice if everybody shut up and agreed with you.

My views as a woman are equally valid. If anything, one could argue that feminists shouldn't attempt to speak on behalf of the wider female population, being such a tiny % of them.

The reason I Iike discussing it is because I think there is room for different approaches, but feminists often try and claim ownership of certain topics and discourage women who disagree with them from speaking up, arguably having a negative effect on the problem, which might have been resolved with a different approach.

For example, 65% of Gen Z males think that feminism has gone too far. I'd also wager a fair % of the ones who identify as feminists are more of the woke rather than radical persuasion.

Of course, they're entitled to disagree with feminists, but the problem IMO is that many issues that affect women as a wider group become labelled as 'feminist' issues and this hinders rather than facilitates debate.

I think men, especially young men, are one of the biggest assets/potential allies in tackling certain women's issues, but many are put off by rhetoric which blames them for the actions of other men. If you dare to question this you're likely to be accused of being a man posting in disguise, an MRA, etc, etc, or posters start ganging up and throwing out the typical soundbites like 'NAMALT', 'not my Norman', etc.

It doesn't help women at all to create an association between disliking men and wanting to help improve women's lives.